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Author Topic: Plains Style Hunting Rifle  (Read 9896 times)

Offline Curtis

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Plains Style Hunting Rifle
« on: August 27, 2012, 06:29:59 AM »
This is a rifle I recently finished for a friend of mine.  He purchased the parts for another fellow to build the gun, but unfortunately the gentleman fell ill so he asked me to do it.  The barrel is a 1" .54 caliber from the Montana barrel company, the stock was a pre-carve factory second he bought from the Fajen gunstock factory when it closed its doors twenty years or so ago.  The stock was probably for a TC style rifle, it came with the barrel channel and ramrod hole already finished.  I took off a LOT of wood and attempted to fancy up the cheek.  Most of the rest of the parts came from Tip Curtis or were made by yours truly.

The steel parts were rust blued, then I coated them in used motor oil and burned it off with a torch to give them a deeper black color.  The underlug and ramrod thimbles are soldered.  The stock was stained with LMF maple and finished with Chambers oil and then some Tru-oil.  Yes, it is very shiny for a hunting gun but that is what the customer wanted!   :D

Let know what you think, I have broad shoulders... and the next gun I post will be a flinter, I promise!































Thanks for looking.

Curtis


« Last Edit: August 28, 2012, 06:08:38 AM by Curtis »
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Curtis Allinson
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Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: Plains Style Hunting Rifle
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2012, 04:17:26 PM »
Well he should be one proud owner... you made a difference!I can't critique the architecture but the workmanship is wonderful. I like the black...burned off motor oil eh?
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Offline Keb

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Re: Plains Style Hunting Rifle
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2012, 02:44:02 AM »
It's not one of my favorite style of guns but the workmanship looks excellent. Fit & finish = A+
The new owner is prolly really proud which he should be.
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Offline rich pierce

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Re: Plains Style Hunting Rifle
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2012, 02:53:14 AM »
Great fit and finish as said above.  I'd like to see  the transition from the forearm to the nosecap more smoothly shaped, and the cheekpiece is not period but more like a 1970's sporter style or reflective of factory "Hawkins" rifles.  In my experience it's rare to unseen on originals to have the cheekpiece so prominent near the comb on a plains rifle of the 1840's-1860's, which I assume this is.  Generally it fades quite a bit.  Take a look here for an example.  The pictures are a little dark but you can get the idea.
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=14977.0
« Last Edit: August 28, 2012, 02:55:09 AM by rich pierce »
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Offline Ed Wenger

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Re: Plains Style Hunting Rifle
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2012, 03:19:32 AM »
Curtis,

I love the finish on the steel parts!  Excellent fit and craftmanship, well done!


      Ed
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Ed Wenger

Offline Curtis

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Re: Plains Style Hunting Rifle
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2012, 05:35:44 AM »
Thanks for posting your comments guys.  I really didn't want to build this style of rifle, but my friend worked me over for year after the other builder couldn't do it, and I finally caved in.

Dr Boone - On page 176 of his book Engraving Historic Firearms, John Schippers briefly mentioned the process of using plum brown and then coating the metal with "dirty used motor oil, the dirtier the better" and then blackening the parts by burning the oil off with a propane torch.  I originally rust blued the parts for this gun and wasn't satisfied with the color,  so I tried the motor oil trick on a small part and was pleased with the results, then used it on the remaining parts, right over the rust blue.  It seems to be very durable.

Keb - Not my favorite style either, and thanks for the comments on the workmanship.

Rich- I have to agree with you on the cheekpiece and the forearm to nosecap transition.  I should have cut the cheek down considerably more than I did as well as been more gradual on the nosecap transition.  You always have a good eye for architecture.

The stock blank may well have been from the 1970's and just sitting around the factory unsold,  should have worked it over a bit more than I did.  Here is what I started with:



Ed - Thanks for your comments.  If you want to send me some perfectly good gun parts I can set them on fire for you and then send them back.

Curtis 
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Curtis Allinson
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Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Plains Style Hunting Rifle
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2012, 05:58:17 AM »
Curtis, lots of times it's harder to build from a precarve than from a blank as it seems they must have had it pretty close and it's challenging to be aggressive.  There's no doubt your skills in fitting parts and finishing are "there".
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Offline Curtis

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Re: Plains Style Hunting Rifle
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2012, 11:23:20 PM »
Quote from: rich pierce on August 28, 2012, 05:58:17 AM
Curtis, lots of times it's harder to build from a precarve than from a blank as it seems they must have had it pretty close and it's challenging to be aggressive. 

Rich, in my limited experience I would have to agree whole heartedly with you on that.  If I have a choice most all of my future builds will be from blanks.  The flexibility is worth it.

Curtis
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Curtis Allinson
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Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing

FRJ

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Re: Plains Style Hunting Rifle
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2012, 01:31:17 AM »
That's one fine looking hunting rifle!!!! I really like the plain and simple over the engraved and carved. I know I'm weird but thats the way I am. Workmanship is beautiful. The stock is a little over kill as far as the shine goes but a little steel wool will fix that when the owner decides to change that. Great job. FRJ
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docone

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Re: Plains Style Hunting Rifle
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2012, 02:58:08 AM »
That looks real good.
A comfortable rifle to look at.
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Offline Don Getz

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Re: Plains Style Hunting Rifle
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2012, 03:16:45 PM »
It is apparent that you have some good gunbuilding skills, your inletting of parts is probably better than mine.  The steel
parts look good.   Never tried that burnt oil method.  Here are some things that I would have done differently.   I would
have made the stock darker, I hate that butterscotch color on  gun.  Looking at the buttstock from the bottom I can see
a well inlet toe plate, but the shape of the butt is kind of bulbous.  You should have drqwn straight line from down near
the trigger back to the buttplate and worked the stock down to that.  The stock looks "thick", top to bottom, in the lock
area, resulting in big lock panels.   Sometimes you are forced to do that when the ramrod hole is drilled low in the stock.
I've been there too and not much you can do about it.   Also the stock shaping around the entry pipe needs some work.
This critique is meant to be helpful, if no one points out these areas of gunbuilding you will do it again, remember, we are
always learning.  I'm still learning and I'm working on gun number 96.  Beware of the guy that says "wow, fantastic wood"
Don
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Offline Curtis

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Re: Plains Style Hunting Rifle
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2012, 08:15:46 PM »
Don, thanks for posting your critiques and comments, and I do find them helpful.  This is my third gun and my primary reason for posting it is to get some constructive criticism so I can improve on the next one and all the ones after that.

As for the bottom of the buttstock, most of what you are seeing there is a fish-eye effect of my camera on macro settings, as the stock edges are parallel  from the trigger to the mid point of the toe plate (about where the rear screw is).  Should I have made the toe parallel all the way to the buttplate?

Curtis
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Curtis Allinson
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Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing

Offline hortonstn

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Re: Plains Style Hunting Rifle
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2012, 11:29:20 PM »
curtis,
love the color of the metal, i rust blue about everything now but never heard
of burning it with oil, fit and finish looks great to me
remember customer is always right ???
paul
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Offline WadePatton

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Re: Plains Style Hunting Rifle
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2012, 09:39:30 AM »
fine gun.

now i'd luv to see that metal finish rubbed back a bit.  i dig the "faded" finishes, but whadda i know?
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bonron

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Re: Plains Style Hunting Rifle
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2012, 04:18:23 PM »
Curtis: You did a outstanding job especially considering what you had to work with. You can't please everyone and then they're not always right. Your inletting and metal finishing are near impeccable.  I would be proud to have this rifle in my gun cabinet anytime. Ron
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Offline PPatch

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Re: Plains Style Hunting Rifle
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2012, 04:55:07 PM »
Top notch inletting and overall fit is excellent. Love the barrel finish and metal finish in general. Bet its a shooter! Good job!

dp
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Offline Curtis

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Re: Plains Style Hunting Rifle
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2012, 06:58:00 AM »
I really appreciate your comments, guys!

I had it out for sighting in last weekend and the groups are looking good, showing lots of promise.  I noticed some cuts on several of the patches so I am going to lap the bore with some scotch brite and then finish the sight in.  It seems to like 90 grains of 2f Graf's powder, .530 ball and .020 patching.  I usually shoot a .535 ball but this gun seems to like the smaller lead orb.


Curtis
« Last Edit: October 08, 2012, 06:58:47 AM by Curtis »
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Curtis Allinson
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Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing

Offline dogcreek

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Re: Plains Style Hunting Rifle
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2012, 04:09:18 PM »
You did a great job on that Plains rifle. The inletting is superb. Thanks for sharing the pics.
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Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Plains Style Hunting Rifle
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2012, 07:33:10 PM »
Curtis, this rifle demonstrates that you have the skill to create a truly fine rifle.  But you have started with a very poor precarve, as far as architecture is concerned.  Fahjen took T/C's horrible "Hawken" stock, and added their own ideas of what a rifle should be.  There was a lot of wood that needed to be cut away, and some of us have commented on that.  The most glaring problem is the wrist/cheek piece area.  I had to check out the lock side to see if it was a roll-over cheek piece!  The shape of the cheek piece is not 'wrong', but it could have been made better if it had been reduced in length from the butt plate, narrower from the bottom of the butt stock, and much much thinner at the comb.  That being said, most plains rifles out of St. Louis, Hawken's rifles included, did not have a thin sharp transition from comb to wrist.  It was a little bulbous and smooth, but only about a third of what you have here.  The wrist - right from the breech back, the wrist needed to be shaved down until finally at the transition to the comb, about 3/8" of wood needed to be cut away.  That would have given you a comb that was about 1/2" too high, and would also need to have been cut away.  the result of all that would have been a reduction in the slab-sidedness of the wrist, the thickness of the lock panels top and bottom, and a much more pleasing outline.  Don's comments on the lower butt stock lines is accurate.  That area is nicest if it is narrower at the butt plate and parallel to until it comes to the for'd end of the trigger plate.  Sometimes, the very back end of the toe plate might curve in a tiny bit to the butt plate's tip.
Precarved stocks, for the most part, leave enough wood for the builder to make just about anything that they wish, but look best when a lot of the wood has been taken away.  Even Chambers stocks leave more wood than you need - forgive me Jim - my own opinion naturally.  but nowhere near as much as that old Fahjen stock.  One thing in their favour though - they used good maple.
All this might sound pretty negative, but I sure don't mean it to be.  I hope that you'll think about these points and try to incorporate some of them in another build, because you have lots of ability as demo'd by the workmanship in this rifle. 
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Offline Curtis

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Re: Plains Style Hunting Rifle
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2012, 07:33:33 PM »
Taylor,

Your comments don't sound negative to me, they are welcomed as the primary reason I posted this rifle was to get good honest input that will help me with future builds.  I appreciate your insight as well as taking the time to put some thought into your post!

Curtis
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Curtis Allinson
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Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing

FRJ

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Re: Plains Style Hunting Rifle
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2012, 06:07:56 PM »
One thing I forgot to mention, it is so rare to see a rifle done with the lock on the right side !!!! A rarely known fact is that ALL people are born right handed, then about 3 months out the really smart, and creative  ones change over to the left side!!!! Great job. FRJ
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Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Plains Style Hunting Rifle
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2012, 06:36:08 PM »
FRJ...I agree with you, being left handed myself.  But I'm RIGHT EYED!  It's an advantage for me because my left arm is the stronger and more coordinated of the two, so I can hold a heavy rifle nice and still, while my strong right eye does the aiming.  Best of both worlds.
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Offline T*O*F

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Re: Plains Style Hunting Rifle
« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2012, 07:16:29 PM »
Quote
I agree with you, being left handed myself.  But I'm RIGHT EYED!
Me too and coincidentally all my closest friends have been too; and we all were born in January.

I already gave Curtis my honest appraisal ( which he understood perfectly) but which a known but un-named moderator chose to delete because although he thinks he is prescient, he is not aware of friendships that might exist outside of this forum.
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Offline Robby

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Re: Plains Style Hunting Rifle
« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2012, 08:03:23 PM »
I too am left handed, right eyed, born in January. Strange!
Robby
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