Greetings from North Georgia - First time poster.

[PPatch]

Greetings;

PPatch here, more commonly known as Dave. I have lurked this site for a week or so and found it very informative and enjoyable to browse with intelligent discourse. I am contemplating building a longrifle, something along the venerable lines of an early Lancaster. I have never built a rifle but have some experience in woodworking having made furniture (small shop for wages) some 35 years ago and a few projects since. By trade I did graphic design/illustration for a living, now retired. Some time back I purchased a 1851 Navy replica (Uberti) and somehow seem to have gotten bit by black powder and have set myself the task of owning a flintlock rifle, but I wouldn’t want to purchase such an object outright, I want to own it the hard way, earn it by creating it. Seems only right, I am somewhat retarded that way.

For several months now I have been researching flintlocks, the styles, different schools and history. I have been sketching (the best way for me to learn something) and am now doing life size drawings incorporating my ideas for designs. I have also been attempting to teach myself relief carving, wire inlay, inletting and engraving. My drawing skills and eye for design help. The relief carving is going well and I have confidence, inlays too, my engraving is presently “beginner” at best. I made my own engraving tools and learned a great deal in the somewhat painful process. I  began with old files and soon went to tool steel, at present I have a 60 degree, a 90 and a 120 degree that work (after a great deal of trial and error). Going to make a wriggler next. One of the first things I learned was to slow down… Finding information on making engravers was not easy, there is a certain company whose first initial is “L” that seems to dominate the info and the market, mention engraving in a search and up they pop trying to sell me there system for “only” three grand. Seems the easy way.

The rifle: Lancaster style longrifle, brass trim, some german silver (I know, I might spring for coin silver) inlay, relief carving, fluted molding on forestock, wooden patchbox with carving, wire inlay where I think it fits. I am thinking purchasing the wood, lock and barrel from Jim Chambers as he seems to have a sterling reputation for first rate products. I am torn between maple or walnut, I’ve worked a lot of walnut, not so much maple. Hand rubbed oil finish and if I stain something reddish from LMF. I don’t like really dark stocks. Decoration will be present but restrained. The rifle will be mostly for target shooting, plinking and  showing off. And for passing on to my son.

Thoughts, suggestions and general palaver welcome.

Dave

[rich pierce]

Hi Dave and welcome!
Sounds like you're ready to try and do it all, first time out of the box.  Can I see a show of hands from those who have done the same?   

I'd recommend building a very plain and simple gun the first time around.  I did not try to build from a blank and attempt carving until I felt quite confident with putting together a functional gun, and felt my inletting and finishing skills were good.  Then I built a carved longrifle from a blank and it looks kinda like spaghetti on a plate, best I can describe it.  It was 1978, I was working from pictures only, and was working on my own without an experienced maker to check my work as I proceeded.  If possible find a local maker- we can't always tell what's going on from photos, though posting work in progress can help.

Of course you should have 2-3 books that explain how to build a rifle from a blank, and read them before each "next step".  If possible see as many original Lancasters as you can, and attend a workshop for engraving, carving, etc.

[mountainman70]

Howdie,y'all;Dave here in WVa,formerly of Grayson/Snellville,ga.Old WVa mountainman,worked in Ga doing pipeorgan building/maintainence all ove Ga .Welcome to ALR,I stumbled in here in 2009,got reinterested in shooting and building after 30 years of life.Retired now too,back home on the mountain with a Decatur,Ga bride.How 'bout that?Love the N Georgia mountains,have friends in Blairsville/Blue ridge.Bein up there just made me more homesick for my hills.
Lancaster a good choice to start with,Chambers stuff be 'bout rite.caint go wrong.These fellers here will help you greatly,and they havent seemed to mind a ol mountaineer,and i 'spect they be OK with a Southern Lad such as yo'sef.Honestly,I cant write too much wif out slidin back inter my hill drawl,now it is spiced with 12 great years of Gawja culture.It was good.
There is much to learn,and this is a great place to grow,and share ideas,and knowledge.Also,Contemporary Longrifle Assoc is another good place.They just had articles on southern iron mounted guns a few issues back.I have about read the print offn 'em.
Best regards,Georgia mountain brother.keep yer powder dry.Dave

[Jim Chambers]

Dave,
North GA is not that far from Asheville, NC where we're located.  Give us a call to make sure we're not gone to some show, and come on up for a visit.  We'll be glad to show you what we have to offer in Lancaster and other stocks, locks, etc.
Jim & Barbie

[smylee grouch]

Welcome ppatch and good luck on your quest. There are alot of very fine gun kits that you can get now days but since you are so close to Jim & Barbie Chambers, I would sugest goin g up there and getting your hands on a few nice rifles and kits and it will be alot better that way over ordering something sight un seen.  Best wishes     Smylee

[PPatch]

Hi Dave and welcome!
Sounds like you're ready to try and do it all, first time out of the box.  Can I see a show of hands from those who have done the same?   

Of course you should have 2-3 books that explain how to build a rifle from a blank, and read them before each "next step".  If possible see as many original Lancasters as you can, and attend a workshop for engraving, carving, etc.

Hello Mr Pierce; And Thanks. I have no idea if this is the proper way to reply to your post but am giving it a try.

Yeah, sounds like I'm biting off a great deal, I know. I am planning on getting a pre-carve for this first project though. I have "Recreating the American Longrifle" and have been studying it along with every web resource I can find. I have thought to do a simple project first and build from there but then I feel fairly confident I can do all the sub" parts of something like this such as shaping  the wood, bedding the barrel and tang and installing the butt. From there, and I have thought on this a great deal, I believe I can do what I have set for myself.

It would be fantastic to find a builder within traveling distance and to actually heft a Lancaster, I would be miles ahead if I could.

[Acer Saccharum]

Welcome aboard, Dave!

This gunbuilding has been with me many years of my life, and has brought me many good friends and much personal satisfaction. So I'm glad you're making the leap.

Regards, Tom

[PPatch]

Howdie,y'all; Dave here in WVa.

Hello Dave in West By-God VA! Thank you for the warm welcome my friend - powder dry here and y'all come on back to Geoja  when you feel a need for fresh mountain air.
Regards

[PPatch]

Dave,
North GA is not that far from Asheville, NC where we're located.  Give us a call to make sure we're not gone to some show, and come on up for a visit.  We'll be glad to show you what we have to offer in Lancaster and other stocks, locks, etc.
Jim & Barbie

Greetings Jim and Barbie; Why Thank you, I may take you up on that visit this fall. I came very close to calling y'all thursday and giving you some of my hard earned green yankee money. I spoke with Barbie a wee bit a month ago while ordering some LMF stain and your finishing oil. You sent me the Nut Brown by mistake, I had asked for the Maple. No big deal and I promply used some on a walnut chasing hammer handle I made and practiced my wire inlay on, turned out good but I wanted something redder. Your oil finish is great, I have three coats on the handle and am waiting a week or so to apply more. Its a test of my finishing skill and the stain. I m carving a pair of pistol grips for a (dare I mention smokeless powder) .380 auto of mine and will be getting some of the maple stain to try on it.

Thanks again for your welcome and I will be doing business with you soon. What might the turn-around on a Lancaster makings be right now, three months seems a looog time when one has the taste for hard detailed work planned and the hankering to get on it. Thinking walnut for the plank.

[PPatch]

Welcome ppatch and good luck on your quest. There are alot of very fine gun kits that you can get now days but since you are so close to Jim & Barbie Chambers, I would sugest goin g up there and getting your hands on a few nice rifles and kits and it will be alot better that way over ordering something sight un seen.  Best wishes     Smylee

Thank you Smylee! I agree and my research shows that Jim and his crew are tops. I am very careful to whom I give my money to.

Take care. Dave

[PPatch]

Welcome aboard, Dave!

This gunbuilding has been with me many years of my life, and has brought me many good friends and much personal satisfaction. So I'm glad you're making the leap.

Regards, Tom

Regards back to you Tom and it do seem a leap sometimes but at others I feel fairly calm about biting off the chore.

[Eric Smith]

Welcome, PPatch. You wont find a friendlier forum than here. I have been bitten with the muzzleloader building bug myself, recently. I find it to be the most satisfying hobby of my life thusfar.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Hey PPatch!! Welcome aboard!!  Where in N GA? I live in Marietta and we have other builders all around.  The suggestion of going to visit Jim and Barbie Chambers is a great one. Get to see and handle as many well built contemporary and original guns as you can.... the books will mean a lot more then.

[Dennis Glazener]

Welcome to ALR PPatch. Not sure where you are in North GA but you can't be too far from Blairsville and Young Harris. Couple of my Gillespie cousins built guns in Union County GA 1849 until they died and both are buried there. John Gillespie lived on Plott Town Rd. His home was still standing the last time I was there about 4 years ago.

This caught my eye:

You sent me the Nut Brown by mistake, I had asked for the Maple. No big deal and I promply used some on a walnut chasing hammer handle I made and practiced my wire inlay on, turned out good but I wanted something redder.

Maybe Jim/Barbie were giving you the stain with the most red in it. I think you will find that the Nut Brown has far more reddish tones in it than maple, at least that has been my experience.

Welcome to ALR, I hope you enjoy your stay. BTW great ride from North GA to Jim Chamber's place, just don't go up 64 if you are in a hurry!
Dennis

[Bill-52]

Dave,

Welcome to the ALR.  Your plan to start with a kit is spot on.  I'm just a bit ahead of you on the learning curve:  first rifle was from a kit, second (almost finished) from a pre-carve (rough shaped from the lock panel midpoint to butt, still lots of wood to remove), third will be from a blank.  If I can make a suggestion, use your first rifle to learn/understand the basic building skills as well as the geometry (barrel to lock to trigger, lock to wrist, etc.) and stock shaping (comb to wrist to tang, upper forearm to lower forearm, etc.). Like you, I was fairly comfortable with my woodworking skills when I started but there are subtle nuances at play here.

Rich's given good advice, a well executed plain rifle will always be more pleasing to the eye than a less well executed rifle with all the embellishments.

And finally, ALR is a great resource for correcting the inevitable mistakes and getting out of those jams you'll find yourself in.

Good luck.  Enjoy the trip.

Bill

[T*O*F]

I am torn between maple or walnut, I’ve worked a lot of walnut, not so much maple.

I didn't see anyone address this.  For everything you have planned for your gun, get a good piece of hard maple.  Walnut is a b+++h to carve.

[mjm46@bellsouth.net]

Welcome Dave. I am in N. Georgia as well, Woodstock. Dr. Tim Boone and I shoot together when we can. I also build rifles. Since you're so close I'd be happy to offer any assistance I can, just contact me if you feel the need.

[smallpatch]

Ppatch,

You've just gotten about the greatest invitation you can get.  Jim and Barbie Chamber's.  Great, authentic product, great, authentic, knowledgeable people.  Barbie knows EVERYTHING, and Jim is a fantastic builder in his own right.
Go see them first.  You can't go wrong there.  I've built literally dozens of their kits. So have most of the people on this site.

[PPatch]

Hey PPatch!! Welcome aboard!!  Where in N GA? I live in Marietta and we have other builders all around.  The suggestion of going to visit Jim and Barbie Chambers is a great one. Get to see and handle as many well built contemporary and original guns as you can.... the books will mean a lot more then.

Thank yee Dr. T-B;

That is great and I do get down in that area from time to time. Have a sister that lives in Sugar Hill. I am near Rome, about ten miles north. Again, thank you for the hardy welcome - bet I have a million questions regarding those long guns.

Peace be with you Sir.

[PPatch]

Welcome to ALR PPatch. Not sure where you are in North GA but you can't be too far from Blairsville and Young Harris. Couple of my Gillespie cousins built guns in Union County GA 1849 until they died and both are buried there. John Gillespie lived on Plott Town Rd. His home was still standing the last time I was there about 4 years ago.

This caught my eye:

You sent me the Nut Brown by mistake, I had asked for the Maple. No big deal and I promply used some on a walnut chasing hammer handle I made and practiced my wire inlay on, turned out good but I wanted something redder.

Maybe Jim/Barbie were giving you the stain with the most red in it. I think you will find that the Nut Brown has far more reddish tones in it than maple, at least that has been my experience.

Welcome to ALR, I hope you enjoy your stay. BTW great ride from North GA to Jim Chamber's place, just don't go up 64 if you are in a hurry!
Dennis

Helo Dennis!

Thank you for the welcome. Those areas of north georgia are my old hunting and fishing grounds, near them anyway. I have not been up that way in two years but know it pretty well. Thanks for the remarks on the stain, one simply can't rely on pictures on the web, too many variables and no two monitors see color the same. The nut brown is a pretty stain I have found. I am working on a pair of pistol grips in walnut that I might use it on and will cut it by half and see how that looks.

Take care my friend. Dave

[PPatch]

...If I can make a suggestion, use your first rifle to learn/understand the basic building skills as well as the geometry (barrel to lock to trigger, lock to wrist, etc.) and stock shaping (comb to wrist to tang, upper forearm to lower forearm, etc.). Like you, I was fairly comfortable with my woodworking skills when I started but there are subtle nuances at play here.

Rich's given good advice, a well executed plain rifle will always be more pleasing to the eye than a less well executed rifle with all the embellishments.

And finally, ALR is a great resource for correcting the inevitable mistakes and getting out of those jams you'll find yourself in.

Good luck.  Enjoy the trip.

Bill

Bill: Thank you! Good advise I am sure. I am sure also that it is the more subtle realm's of a build that one stumbles on and that a book or photograph simply can't relate. I came upon just such an area, and one you mention, today when reading Recreating the American Longrifle - the barrel lock to trigger to waist geometries and inter-relation had got me to thinkig that here is an area that speking with a builder would surely help. So, now I have two "hints" to go slow and understand what I am attempting and the goal in those areas before picking up drill press, file and rasp and "geting to it." Thank you for your remarks. I believe I should plan a trip before getting too far into this project... smile.

Good day to you sir and thank you again.

[PPatch]

I am torn between maple or walnut, I’ve worked a lot of walnut, not so much maple.

I didn't see anyone address this.  For everything you have planned for your gun, get a good piece of hard maple.  Walnut is a b+++h to carve.

Maple is easier, do tell?

I can tell you this: the walnut I have is probably approaching 50 years old and hard as steel and highly figured. It fights me every step of the way, its only saving grace is that it has beautiful figure when finished. Case in point was when cutting-in for the wire inlay; an Xacto knife and my best carving knife, as sharp as a razor, could barely put a dent in it. You would cut a quarter of an inch fine then hit a “bump” or hard spot and up and over the blades would ride. Main force wouldn’t slice that spot, another eighth of an inch and there was another. I took an old hacksaw blade and made an eighth inch punch for those spots and that worked after a fashion. Working with those tools I thought I had it, but no, there were still areas needing more depth, what to do? What really worked was me getting frustrated and retreating to my pocket knife – For some reason, I believe it was the width of the blade point and it also being very sharp I was able to get to the depth I needed using my pocket knife. Then came the handle shape, being carved ergonomically to my hand and having rounded areas and my need to get the wire to conform to the micro hills and dales - ho boy… Simply put, flat wire don’t bend that way, couldn’t bend that way, I am sure you’ve all came to this problem and solved it long past. If so you probably know what I did, nicked under the top edge of the wire so it would conform over a slight hump. What a lesson learned that day. Spent half a day doing something I thought would take minutes that morning.

And there is the reason I am happy to be speaking with knowledgeable folks on this forum. I am sure if I had been here before and asked someone would have clued me in on the wire “trick.”

Thank you for the welcome TOF – tell me about maple vs. Walnut.

[PPatch]

Ppatch,

You've just gotten about the greatest invitation you can get.  Jim and Barbie Chamber's.  Great, authentic product, great, authentic, knowledgeable people.  Barbie knows EVERYTHING, and Jim is a fantastic builder in his own right.
Go see them first.  You can't go wrong there.  I've built literally dozens of their kits. So have most of the people on this site.

SmallPatch;
Thank you. I have seen photographs of Jim's rifles and yes, good stuff, no, excellent work. My gears are turning on how to make it up near Ashville this fall. I have spoken with Barbie via land line and she was quite informitive and I learned that she is an artist in her own right, does oil pastels. Would love to see those also.

Take care and Howdy!

[PPatch]

Welcome Dave. I am in N. Georgia as well, Woodstock. Dr. Tim Boone and I shoot together when we can. I also build rifles. Since you're so close I'd be happy to offer any assistance I can, just contact me if you feel the need.

Thank you Micah - I willd do that, will keep you and your kind offer in mind. Woodstock is fairly close, just southeast of Cartersville if I remember correctly. Count on it, I'll be seeing you when I get the chance. And, thank you again.

[rwiegand]

There is great advice here on this forum.  I drop by once in a while to learn something new, and I have been playing with these things since the late sixties!
And I'm always picking up something new.

I am just south of Chatanooga, between Chickamauga and La Fayette.  Open invitation... Come on up and we can have some fun in the shop.  I'm always working on something.  Pouches, horns, guns, reenactor stuff...

Welcome to the forum!