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Author Topic: Boulton rifle.  (Read 13936 times)

les1946

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Boulton rifle.
« on: September 03, 2012, 05:13:19 PM »
Hi This is my first time on here so hope I'm in the right section.
I have a flintlock rifle that I bought many years ago, the only mark is the word Boulton which after searching found it was a gun factory in USA.
The full length is 47 and 3/8".  Barrel length is 31 and 7/8".  The bore is 3/4".
There are various engravings on the trigger guard, on the metal around the stock, and a bird near the word Boulton.  There is also a small metal square on the top, maybe to engrave initials??.  I guess there would have been a sight at some time but is missing.
You may have gathered I know nothing about guns and hope that you can help with some of the history and value of the gun and if it is authentic!!
Looking forward to some replies.
























« Last Edit: September 04, 2012, 03:44:14 AM by nord »
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Offline spgordon

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Re: Boulton rifle.
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2012, 05:50:41 PM »
Here's a link to a tutorial on adding pictures:

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=10.0

I totally agree with the second post, which suggests that you use: http://tinypic.com/
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Check out: The Lost Village of Christian's Spring
https://christiansbrunn.web.lehigh.edu/
And: The Earliest Moravian Work in the Mid-Atlantic: A Guide
https://www.moravianhistory.org/product-page/moravian-activity-in-the-mid-atlantic-guidebook

les1946

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Re: Boulton rifle.
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2012, 07:52:16 PM »
Many Thanks.
I joined photobucket, uploaded the photos, made a link but don't know how to add to this site , My puters on a go slow and it's driving me mad. I give up.
Can I e-mail them to you or anyone else who may be able to answer my request?
Thanks again.
Les
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Offline spgordon

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Re: Boulton rifle.
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2012, 08:32:23 PM »
I would email one of this site's administrators:

"Hurricane"          fgarner@verizon.net

or

"Nord"             nordata@earthlink.net

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Check out: The Lost Village of Christian's Spring
https://christiansbrunn.web.lehigh.edu/
And: The Earliest Moravian Work in the Mid-Atlantic: A Guide
https://www.moravianhistory.org/product-page/moravian-activity-in-the-mid-atlantic-guidebook

les1946

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Re: Boulton rifle.
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2012, 08:46:11 PM »
OK Thanks
Regards
Les
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Offline JCKelly

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Re: Boulton rifle.
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2012, 10:44:42 PM »
Henry Rifle factory (muzzleloaders, not lever actions) was in Boulton, Pennsylvania. Last time I was there, circa 1962, it was covered in poison ivy. Including the lime pile. Lots of information published on this factor & its rifles.
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les1946

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Re: Boulton rifle.
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2012, 10:53:29 PM »
Thanks for the info. Do you think it is collectible?
Is there an average value?
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Offline spgordon

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Re: Boulton rifle.
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2012, 11:36:19 PM »
You can read a bit about the career of the Boulton Gun Works here:

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=22490.0

Also, the Jacobsburg Historical Society published Henry of Boulton: A Pennsylvania Gunmaking Family and Its Firearms, which contains a large number of images of rifles and images of the stamps on the locks. You can visit the Jacobsburg Historical Society website (http://www.jacobsburg.org/) and contact them to order one.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2012, 11:36:52 PM by spgordon »
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Check out: The Lost Village of Christian's Spring
https://christiansbrunn.web.lehigh.edu/
And: The Earliest Moravian Work in the Mid-Atlantic: A Guide
https://www.moravianhistory.org/product-page/moravian-activity-in-the-mid-atlantic-guidebook

les1946

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Re: Boulton rifle.
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2012, 11:46:43 PM »
That's great.  Thank you
I'll have a look tomorrow.
Regards
Les
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Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: Boulton rifle.
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2012, 03:58:47 AM »
Very nice gun. Boy that is a beautiful Lockplate!
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Offline smart dog

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Re: Boulton rifle.
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2012, 04:18:55 AM »
Hi Les,
I suspect your gun is not a rifle but a smoothbored birding gun.  Are there rifling grooves in the barrel? In addition, I don't think it has any connection to the Henry works at Boulton.  It may be American made with imported parts or possibly it could be an English export.  Are there proof marks on the underside of the barrels? I also don't think the lock is original to the gun.  The inlet looks really sloppy, although the photos are not very clear.  Is that a makers stamp on the top of the barrel?  What does it say or show?  The silver plate at the wrist is for an engraved monogram.  I doubt your gun was ever intended to have sights.  

dave
« Last Edit: September 04, 2012, 04:19:57 AM by smart dog »
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Offline T*O*F

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Re: Boulton rifle.
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2012, 04:27:56 AM »
Firstly, it appears to be a smoothbore rather than a rifle.  Secondly, I believe it is an English gun with the original lock replaced with a Boulton one.  It's a close fit, but too many anomalies.  The gun has all the classic lines and hardware of an English gun, as is the engraving.  The engraving on the lock was done by a different hand and it does not follow the theme of the other engraving which is classic English.  It also appears that the nosecap has been replaced.

Unless someone can produce examples of English styled fowlers made at Boulton, I would have to stick to the above evaluation.
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les1946

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Re: Boulton rifle.
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2012, 09:54:59 AM »
Many Thanks guys.
A wealth of information. The small brass oblong inset on top appears to have overlapping circles stamped on it in an irregular pattern.
Do I now assume there is no great value and not a sought after gun?
Thanks again
Les
(England)
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Online rich pierce

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Re: Boulton rifle.
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2012, 05:27:12 PM »
It's been extensively cleaned and maybe some finish applied, which may diminish value among American collectors.  Here, a flintlock fowling piece in nice shape, all original, has some value but not like a "one-off".  For example, a Pennsylvania or New England fowling piece of the same period, if a maker could be identified, might bring $5-$10K if it was interesting. Unsigned, unattributed, or attributed to someone not highly collectable, brings less.
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Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Boulton rifle.
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2012, 07:30:53 PM »
Being an English gun of the period it is, I would be suprised if it would sell for even a couple grand.  Probably less. 
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les1946

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Re: Boulton rifle.
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2012, 07:54:01 PM »
Hi Guys
I think you have all been very helpful and your knowledge is amazing, I now have a good idea of the guns history and value.
Many thanks to you all.
Regards
Les.

Thanks to "Hurricane" for sorting the photos.
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Offline T*O*F

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Re: Boulton rifle.
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2012, 08:15:03 PM »
Les,
Do not assume value from the comments given.  IF you are indeed from England, the gun will bring a higher price there as opposed to here.  Also, tastefully done restorations are not frowned upon as they are here.  English makers are usually determined by the name on the lock.  However, many English gun dealers can recognize a maker's style from elements on the gun, including the engraving.  My advice would be to contact one of the British authorities, such as Kranks or others.  They might be able to identify the maker and in doing so provide contacts to obtain a proper lock which would make the gun complete.  There is also a British gun forum which might be able to provide you with information.  Lastly, look up Feltwad in the member list of this board and contact him.  He is somewhat of an authority on British guns and collects as well as restores them.  He can provide more information than you will find here.

Quote
I think you have all been very helpful and your knowledge is amazing, I now have a good idea of the guns history and value.
Not by a long shot.  Your journey is only beginning.  Follow up on the above recommendations in your own country.
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Dave Kanger

If religion is opium for the masses, the internet is a crack, pixel-huffing orgy that deafens the brain, numbs the senses and scrambles our peer list to include every anonymous loser, twisted deviant, and freak as well as people we normally wouldn't give the time of day.
-S.M. Tomlinson

les1946

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Re: Boulton rifle.
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2012, 08:50:10 PM »
Thanks T*O*F
Yes I live on the south coast of England.  Thats very heplful information and I will contact who you mention.
Cheers
Les
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Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Boulton rifle.
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2012, 10:23:44 PM »
Quote from: T*O*F on September 04, 2012, 08:15:03 PM
Les,
  IF you are indeed from England, the gun will bring a higher price there as opposed to here. 
Quote


Perhaps it has something to do with the particular time period of English guns I'm interested in, but I've not found this to be generally the case.  In fact, my feeling is that they are more likely to bring more here than in England.
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Offline James Rogers

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Re: Boulton rifle.
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2012, 10:37:05 PM »
Ditto Jim.
Was just preparing to post the same although I am not that familiar with very late flint pricing.
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les1946

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Re: Boulton rifle.
« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2012, 02:27:08 PM »
Cheers Guys, I'll do a lot more research following your views.
Thanks
Les

I can now confirm that my gun is a single barrelled flintlock shotgun or "fowling piece" circa 1790-1800, made by James Boulton of Birmingham England.
The barrel is Spanish and the engraved bird is probably a crest of the original owner.
Again my thanks to you all
Les
« Last Edit: September 07, 2012, 01:14:38 PM by les1946 »
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Offline T*O*F

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Re: Boulton rifle.
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2012, 06:33:39 PM »
Quote
made by James Boulton of Birmingham

Les,
I had wondered if there was a Brit maker named Boulton, but my Boothroyd book of Birmingham makers didn't show one.  Which only goes to show that you can never have enough books.

As an aside, later British fowling pieces generally had the type of game engraved on the lock that the gun was intended for; ie, snipe, woodcock, pidgeon, duck, goose etc.  The gauge was also figured into the equation, with distance and load column getting progressively larger.  Most were purpose built guns.
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Dave Kanger

If religion is opium for the masses, the internet is a crack, pixel-huffing orgy that deafens the brain, numbs the senses and scrambles our peer list to include every anonymous loser, twisted deviant, and freak as well as people we normally wouldn't give the time of day.
-S.M. Tomlinson

les1946

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Re: Boulton rifle.
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2012, 07:11:16 PM »
Cheers for that T*O*F
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Offline JV Puleo

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Re: Boulton rifle.
« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2012, 12:21:53 AM »
Boulton, James. 74 Steelhouse Ln, Birmingham ca. 1830

Its a pure English gun... nothing American about it at all.

The above is from Bailey & Nie... the reference comes from one of the Birmingham City Directories and could easily include a working life of 1820-1840.
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les1946

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Re: Boulton rifle.
« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2012, 09:33:31 AM »
Having checked a few dealers and gun auctions here in England it seems the value ranges between
£300 to £500 (pounds).  Think I will keep it on display.
Cheers
Les
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