Author Topic: Hot and Humid  (Read 6067 times)

flatrock

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Hot and Humid
« on: September 06, 2012, 04:53:34 AM »
I guess I couldn`t stand it any longer so hot and humid or not I got my .40 cal flintlock out and shot most of the afternoon.  Sure did a lot of pan and frizzen whipping but had a good afternoon.  It came to my mind as I was shooting that I remember back when I first started shooting in the early 50`s that I remember the old timers (I`m only 77 myself) would blow down the bbl. after a shot.  Let me be understood that I don`t do that!  I know it is frowned on as a safety hazard now.  I just wondered what the purpose in doing that was? 

Offline LH

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Re: Hot and Humid
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2012, 05:45:04 AM »
I'm just a baby myself,  not even 70 yet,  but it's always been my understanding that blowing down the barrel had two purposes,  one to make sure there was no smoldering ember that could ignite the next charge and two to moisten the fouling for easier loading and better accuracy. 

Daryl

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Re: Hot and Humid
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2012, 05:30:51 PM »
At one time, it was necessary here in BC (BC BP Federation rules) to blow down the bore to "extinguish any embers still burning" in the bore from the previous shot.  With new shooters who have had poor direction in loading and shooting muzleloaders, the still burning embers was and still is a distinct possibility.  A friend of mine had just such an accident when loading his longrifle, in about 1974. He was shoving the patched ball down with the ramrod and was about 1/2 way down when the powder in the bore went off. It ripped his hand a bit but he didn't lose any appendages.

Some of us, me anyway, who used thick patches (still do) and balls only .005" under bore size, would blow sideways at the bore, muzzle pointed away from me to satisfy that order. The rule has since been recinded.

Many here still blow down their tubes after a shot.  We had a new shooter do that this year at rendezvous after his cap missed firing the main charge - !!!! Scared the bejeebers out of me - about 4 of us shouted NO! at him as he started to mouth the muzzle & he jerked his head away, not comprehending what he'd done until we explained it. 

His .58 Enfield would have made a nasty mess.

Offline axelp

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Re: Hot and Humid
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2012, 06:29:40 AM »
In BPCR, competitions, it is usual for shooters to use a blow tube to blow into the barrel from the breech. The moisture from your breath will keep the fouling soft so it does not cause accuracy issues. Some shooters wipe, some use a blow tube.



Galations 2:20

Offline David R. Pennington

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Re: Hot and Humid
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2012, 06:16:20 AM »
One of our club members recently brought out an old newspaper clipping of an accident that had happened years ago where someone lost his life attempting to blow down the bore. We don't do that anymore.
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Offline SCLoyalist

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Re: Hot and Humid
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2012, 07:45:24 PM »
Some would argue (quite vehemently, I've noticed) that blowing down the barrel doesn't pose a safety issue because if the gun's just gone off, obviously there's no powder or bullet down there, so blow down the barrel to extinguish embers, soften the fouling, and look for smoke out the nipple or vent hole to verify a clear flash channel for the next shot.    Where the safety issue comes back into play is the possibility of a misfire and the shooter then blowing down the barrel out of habit just in time for a delayed ignition (heard rumors of this happening, but they were as unconfirmed as most rumors are).   Or,  sometimes people blow down a barrel because they don't remember if the gun is loaded so blowing down the (unprimed) gun is their way of seeing if the barrel is clear.    I did once ask the NMLRA if they knew of a documented case where there was injury while someone was blowing down the barrel, and all I got was an indirect reply of "Current rules don't permit the practice and you should use a blow tube that keeps your head out of the line of the bore".

I finally decided that if the range officer turns around to see someone blowing down the barrel, he shouldn't have to guess whether the shooter was blowing down an empty gun, a misfiring gun, a loaded gun, an unloaded gun etc.   The practice gives the appearance of a safety issue and if getting air flow through the bore is necessary, use a blow tube like NMLRA suggests.

Daryl

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Re: Hot and Humid
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2012, 09:27:38 PM »
Yes - my sentiments exactly - SCLoyalist.  If you must as many do with their ctg. guns using black powder loads, please use a blow tube.

There is an OLD firearms rule, "Never point your gun at something you do not wish to kill". 

Placing your mouth over the muzzle violates that age-old rule.  If no one does it, the practise cannot claim any more lives as-seems it has in recent years in the States. 

Offline James Rogers

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Re: Hot and Humid
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2012, 09:43:03 PM »
I recognize the need for rules with line shooting and organizations.

I can't count the number of muzzles I have had in my eye over the years while fitting guns. I also blow down my barrel on my own dirt, eat double portions of pork, may ride a cycle without a helmet, etc.

What gets me most is the careless way many (usually the old timers who should know better) sweep their muzzles around. That is endangering to others.

dagner

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Re: Hot and Humid
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2012, 09:47:21 AM »
  over years saw a lots  of guys blow down barrel to see if it was  loaded 
thats why nmlra  put a stop to it.
dag

Offline Habu

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Re: Hot and Humid
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2012, 05:27:08 AM »
I'm probably one of those who "vehemently" argue; I generally think that the rule is unnecessary (or as I usually phrase it, "stupid").  There may be good reasons for the rule, but if there were, why weren't they stated at the time (or at least provided to members who asked about it)?  Was this another thing you had to go to Friendship for? 

The NMLRA alienated a lot of people with how the rule was handled, and a number of other actions over the course of the '90s, and there is still a lot of resentment from people who thought that as members they were entitled to some explanation. 


Offline Roger Fisher

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Re: Hot and Humid
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2012, 07:04:08 PM »
I'm probably one of those who "vehemently" argue; I generally think that the rule is unnecessary (or as I usually phrase it, "stupid").  There may be good reasons for the rule, but if there were, why weren't they stated at the time (or at least provided to members who asked about it)?  Was this another thing you had to go to Friendship for? 

The NMLRA alienated a lot of people with how the rule was handled, and a number of other actions over the course of the '90s, and there is still a lot of resentment from people who thought that as members they were entitled to some explanation. 


Well all right, I will stick my nose in.............I, thrice (over the years) have seen excited shooters, blow down their muzzle after having a flash in the pan (one was a cap that popped but failed to ignite the main charge.  Everyone was v  lucky those 3 times.... shows that there is in fact someone up there looking out for careless folks down here....It is also poor guidance for young and or new inexperienced shooters.  Nuf said.

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Hot and Humid
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2012, 12:01:46 AM »
In hot weather, with low humidity, I use a flexible tube to blow down the bore. It really helps. Tube is long enough so head is off to the side.  ;D

Sometimes I have to slow rate of fire, since a hot barrel will bake fouling on.

Between blow tube and watching bbl temp, I got no problem with fouling. Shoot all day without cleaning.

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Daryl

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Re: Hot and Humid
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2012, 12:41:09 AM »
About every year, we have VERY low humidity at Rendezvous BC- ie: in the 6% range. With temps in the 90 to 100F range, this might present problems - but we don't have any - that is, those of us who frequent this site - Taylor, Crispy, Neil, LB or myself, along wiht the guys we commonly shoot with. We all shoot, all day, without wiping and without wiping, either.

With a somewhat looser ball and patch combination, I can see quite easily that a blow-tube would certainly help under the same circumstances, just as it does under some conditions with BP ctg. gun shooting. 

Offline Habu

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Re: Hot and Humid
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2012, 04:07:31 AM »
Well all right, I will stick my nose in.............I, thrice (over the years) have seen excited shooters, blow down their muzzle after having a flash in the pan (one was a cap that popped but failed to ignite the main charge.  Everyone was v  lucky those 3 times.... shows that there is in fact someone up there looking out for careless folks down here....It is also poor guidance for young and or new inexperienced shooters.  Nuf said.

No one is arguing that blowing down the barrel after a misfire is a desirable or safe practice.  As far as I can tell, no one has ever advocated doing so. 

No one today is advocating blowing down the barrel to see if the gun is loaded; the only case I know of where someone suggested that doing so was appropriate goes back to the writings of Audubon in the first part of the 18th century. 

But no one has ever shown that there is any risk to blowing down the barrel after the gun has been discharged.  (Despite what one NMLRA Field Rep and some others claimed about "some guy" back east who had unburnt powder go off when he blew down the muzzle AFTER THE RIFLE WAS FIRED.) 

Over the years, rules have been made for legitimate reasons and were accompanied by some explanation.  The rule about using a separate measure for powder came about after several instances where flasks or horns went off when used to load directly into the barrel or cylinder.  The rule about tying a false muzzle to the bench came after someone loaded and capped his rifle, got ready to shoot and noticed the false muzzle in place, and reached forward to remove it--removing a couple fingers in the process. 

The rule about not blowing down the muzzle was imposed with no explanation.  No need for the rule has ever been shown (aside from the various stories about "some guy" that seem to have never been reported to the police or made the newspapers).  At least in the first years after the rule was put in place, the NMLRA refused to respond to requests for information.  Those factors have bred resentment over the years, and that was the point of my post to which you were responding.

If rules are going to be passed for peoples' own good, let's be consistent.  Every year or two we hear of a powder horn explosion, almost always because the horn wasn't plugged after use.  There is an actual--provable if not quantifiable--risk there; people have actually been injured and no one has to make up stories about "some guy."  Shouldn't all non-automatic horn closures be banned, or even the use of powder horns be banned completely and a requirement be made to use pre-measured charges in little fire-proof containers?     

If there are going to be rules about things that might give beginners the wrong idea, let's add a little honesty to the consistency.  Alcohol is present at almost every shoot.  I suspect most of us have seen a shooter or two (or more) over the years who had a beer or two (or more) with (or for) lunch, then returned to the line to shoot. 

The rules only state that "use of or impairment from intoxicating beverages and/or drugs on the firing line" is grounds for disqualification, but fail to define "impairment" in this context.  What kind of example is that setting for "young and or new inexperienced shooters?"  Shouldn't all use of alcohol on the day of the match prior to shooting be banned?  It would certainly make the RO's job easier!  Or better yet--if the goal is really to provide guidance and set an example for newbies--ban the possession and use of alcohol completely until the match is over. 

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Hot and Humid
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2012, 05:15:03 PM »
From personal experience, I know people can get distracted at shoots, and do dangerous things unwittingly.

The blowing down the barrel is perfectly safe on a discharged gun. No argument there.

Blowing down a loaded gun is really unsafe.

It is entirely possible that someone could get distracted and do such a thing.


Maybe there is no precedent for such a rule, but it one that is preventive and good practice, in my opinion. It's in the same category as pointing unloaded guns carelessly around at people. Many people have been killed or injured by guns that were thought to be unloaded.
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Offline Habu

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Re: Hot and Humid
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2012, 05:33:28 PM »
Acer, folks can--and have--come up with all kinds of post-hoc rationalizations for the rule.  There's even a degree of validity to many of these, and had they been offered when the rule was first put in place there would likely be little discussion of it now.  But they weren't, and no explanation has been given of why the rule was imposed by those involved.

I don't think the vehemence SCLoyalist wrote of is directed at the rule anymore as much as towards the way it came about, and the way it has been handled.  If the rule were proposed and discussed today, even without showing an actual need for it, I strongly suspect the consensus would arise that it wasn't totally objectionable.  Given the internet to get word out, most folks would be aware of it in a reasonable amount of time and have a chance to provide input in one form or another. 

But the rule was imposed 20 years ago, before the internet.  Over the years since then, defenders of the rule have often been patronizing, profane, and have told more fairy tales than the Brothers Grimm.  This has lead to a level of intransigence and the vehemence SCLoyalist noted on the part of those who question or oppose the rule.  Claiming now that the rule is necessary for safety reasons while ignoring other provable safety issues, or that it is necessary to "set a good example" while ignoring arguably more-serious "bad examples," simply adds more fuel to the fire.