Shaping forestock question

[Jerry V Lape]

Want to keep the stock slim so minimizing the wood below the ramrod channel is going to be important, especially since I am using a Ditchburn lock which is about the same size as a small Siler with a swamped breech 1 1/16".  Is an 1/8" below the ramrod channel about the minimum? 

[rich pierce]

yes.

[TMerkley]

If you have a nose cap, you can use that to assist you in your shaping of the forestock.  It works pretty well.

[Jerry V Lape]

Please explain how you use a nose cap to shape the forend? 

[Acer Saccharum]

Use your nosecap to judge how to shape the forestock. Or, make your forestock, then make a cap to suit what you've made. Either way works.

[Acer Saccharum]

Install your lock before you shape the forestock.

[Pete G.]

Make the nose cap to fit the stock.

[Jerry V Lape]

Acer, I am not quite so inexperienced that I need that simple an explanation.  I just wanted to know how Rich Pierce used a muzzle cap to form a forend.  I prefer waitiing until the forend is finished to form the muzzle cap to fit it - not vice versa.   Perhaps Rich has a unique technique which would be of use.  My original question pertained to how thin dare I go below the ramrod channel in my effort to slim the profile beneath the lock.  Because I am using a relatively small (narrow) lock with a 1 1/16"  swamped barrel at breach there is more wood exposed below the lock than had I used a larger (wider lock).  I am trying to slim the profile there but still have to live with a couple realities including web thickness, ramrod channel, and enough thickness below the ramrod to not have a fragile belly on this thing. 

[bgf]

Assuming the ramrod hole is already drilled and web is set, you could forget the ramrod and use a short fake -- fill in the breech end of the hole and trim the forend as much as you like.

You might also fill in the ramrod hole and drill/route right under the barrel for a tapered rod; you will lose the front lock bolt, but one is enough and you can fake a second.

You can probably go a little thinner than 1/8", but not much unless you like wear plates !

[Acer Saccharum]

Jerry, no slight intended. From your reply, it sounded like you thought a nosecap could be used to actually shape a forestock.

[rich pierce]

Acer, I am not quite so inexperienced that I need that simple an explanation.  I just wanted to know how Rich Pierce used a muzzle cap to form a forend.  I prefer waitiing until the forend is finished to form the muzzle cap to fit it - not vice versa.   Perhaps Rich has a unique technique which would be of use.  

Jerry, not wanting to argue but can you clarify where I said all these things?  I am not following. In response to the question whether 1/8" is about as thin as one can go, I said yes.  That's been my experience.  I cannot go thinner than that.  I make my nosecaps to fit the fore-end after shaping it.  I've never used a pre-made nosecap before.  I think they would really be hard to use. So much depends on the ramrod groove, how the molding terminates, etc.  Maybe the use of pre-made nosecaps is why we see so many contemporary rifles with the rammer hanging below the nosecap?

No big deal- we're all in agreement I think.

[Jerry V Lape]

Rich, I apologize.  The advice you gave was correct about the 1/8" being the reasonable minimum wood below the ramrod hole.  I mistakenly picked up your name instead of the poster following your comments.  Again my apology and thanks for confirming what I believed to be correct with regard to the 1/8" minimum. 

[rich pierce]

No problem Jerry, and happy drilling for the pins into the underlugs and ramrod thimble tabs.  That is probably my least favorite task.  It's fun shaping a slim fore end but drilling a thin web makes me check and double check about 6 times then I still feel nervous.

[Jerry V Lape]

Rich, I have recently started using a hand powered brace and a drilling jig to put almost all the holes in the stock.  To do that I put reference marks on the top of the barrel centered on the lug and extend that line vertically down both  sides of the stock.  Then using a depth gauge mark a horizontal line on the stock  so I have the right distance down to the place I want the hole in the underlug center.  The intersection of the two lines is where I  clamp on the drill jig, drill each side of the wood marking the underlug with the drill in the process.  Take the stock off, drill the underlug, open the slot for the expansion/contraction and I am done.    It is really simple and rather fool proof. 

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Jerry, I do the same except I have discovered that using a 1/16" aircraft bit (about 6 inches long) in a nice pin vise is even easier for me. I have even done some without the  jig and they were simple, fast and right where they needed to be!!  The hand brace or pin vise really seem to make it much easier to drill straight hole!!

[Jerry V Lape]

Tim,  I find the brace just a little awkward for tiny holes and I am looking for a quality egg beater type hand drill.  I think that will be the final solution.  I also use the aircraft drill bits at times, but they really are not needed on the forends since I am only going halfway.  The drilling jig is a must for me though.  Especially when I am drilling the tang bolt hole!  That is the hole that makes me overly cautious because I have never quite figured out a secure method of getting the countersink on the tang perpendicular to the tang surface.  The brace is perfect for the patchbox drilling, and the inlet holes under the lockplate.  Low speed, complete depth control and it never burns the wood. 

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Oh yes there is always a tang bolt.....My nemesis as well!!  Even with a jig I have a difficult time getting the alignment just right.... ....  

Re the pin holes.actually I have a nice egg beater but the pin vice just works  a little better for me.. they are cheap..give one a try....  of course you have to use what feels right for you.   I drill from one side to the lug..enough to mark the lug...pull out the pipe and drill it and then re insert the pipe and drill the rest of the way through.. the pin vice allows me you use very little pressure and no chip out in the far side....

[rich pierce]

Pin vise now on my Christmas list.

[Dennis Glazener]

Re the pin holes.actually I have a nice egg beater but the pin vice just works  a little better for me.. they are cheap..give one a try....  of course you have to use what feels right for you.   I drill from one side to the lug..enough to mark the lug...pull out the pipe and drill it and then re insert the pipe and drill the rest of the way through.. the pin vice allows me yo use very little pressure and no chip out in the far side....
   

I woke up dumber than usual this morning, how do you drill holes using a pin vise? Must put the pin vise in the chuck? Wouldn't think that would help but never tried it.
Dennis

[NSBrown]

If you haven't tried a pin vice, I too recommend it for forestock pin holes in particular. It is easily as quick as anyother drill and your precision is greatly improve. It helps me get over the anxiety associated with those pin holes.

Stewart Brown

[Acer Saccharum]

I am even dumber than Dennis today.

A brace is very big an clunky, heavy, I'd never imagine using a drill that would bend easily out of line, or snap off if  I sneezed.

A pin vise is just a little cylinder with a collet at the end to hold the drill, spin it twixt your fingers like  a pencil. Fingers get pretty tired trying to get thru the lug, eh.

I could see making a bow drill with the pin vise, as you'd get the speed. But ya might as well use the (cough) cordless drill.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Use the pin vise for the wood by spinning it in your fingers...slowly. Your drill press or power drill for the lug!!

[Acer Saccharum]

I'll chuck one of the pin vises in my cordless drill. 

[NSBrown]

I'm with the good Doctor.

In wood the pin vice is nearly as quick as any drill. I spot the lugs from both sides, then use the hand drill to create and clear the lug slot. The pin vice is even easier to hold on-line than an eggbeater.

[Dennis Glazener]

Use the pin vise for the wood by spinning it in your fingers...slowly. Your drill press or power drill for the lug!!

WOW I am too lazy for that! I assume you just mark the lug then pull the barrel and drill that then put it back in and drill the rest of the way? If so I am slow enough doing it with machine power, I just drill mine on through making sure to hold a piece of wood on the other side to keep from splintering.
Dennis