Author Topic: Lyman Blackpowder Handbook question  (Read 5054 times)

Offline James

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Lyman Blackpowder Handbook question
« on: September 13, 2012, 02:18:39 PM »
I have seen mention of the Lyman Blackpowder Handbook in many posts. I am considering buying a copy to learn something of roundball balistics. I see they have a new 2nd edition in the $26 range, but the original can be had for $9. Is there anything in the new version that I need for basic understanding that I can't find in the original version? Thanks, Jim
« Last Edit: September 13, 2012, 02:19:25 PM by James »
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun." P.Henry

mjm46@bellsouth.net

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Re: Lyman Blackpowder Handbook question
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2012, 03:07:40 PM »
I bought one of these a few months ago. In my opinion, unless you are very new to black powder shooting, Save your money, it's mostly basic info, and somewhat geared to Lyman Rifles, I think. There are a lot of charts but most of them are for conical bullets.  The charts for patched round ball are all for short barrels 22" through 32". My rifles are 42" and 44". I didn't find anything useful in the book.

If you still want one, Get back to me I'll sell you my copy half price plus shipping. It's in brand new condition.

Offline SCLoyalist

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Re: Lyman Blackpowder Handbook question
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2012, 04:13:51 PM »
My copy has a 1975 copyright date, printed around 1987.   

The part of the book I find most valuable is the last 50 pages of Black Powder ballistics.  There's discussion of terms like mid-path, bullet path,  ballistic coefficient, etc.    And then there are extensive tables.   The tables cover muzzle velocities typically from 2300 down to 1400 fps, and projectiles  from .350RB up to .562RB and .575 Minie.    For a given projectile and muzzle velocity you can see where the ball will hit, and with what energy, out to 300 yds.    E.g.  .445 roundball, 1900 fps mv,   if sighted in at 50 yds, would hit 3.87" low at 100 yds,  40 inches low at 200, etc, or would drift 5.53 " at 100 yds with a 5mph crosswind.   They don't cover every projectile - there is a table for .445RB, but not .440, so you have to take it for granted that the two balls' trajectories are 'close enough for government work.'

In the front of the book, there are about 67 pages of general articles which would likely be mostly of interest to newcomers to the sport (how flintlocks and caplocks work, bullet casting, cleaning your firearm, shooting the revolver, etc).  There are 13 pages of revolver loading data - caliber with roundball or conical of this weight with barrel length with powder charge yields this much muzzle velocity and muzzle energy.  A chronograph would give you better data for your particular gun and today's manufactured powder.  Pages 82 through 143 are Rifle and musket loading data and give similar info as for the revolver section.    They give you an idea about load performance, but I'd rather have chronograph data for my rifle and not rely on data generated 25 years ago.

The right software and a good chronograph would give you as good or better trajectory info than you'll get from the BP Handbook, but if my copy of the handbook were to disappear, I'd still probably replace it with another first edition just because it's a handy reference.


Daryl

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Re: Lyman Blackpowder Handbook question
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2012, 05:39:11 PM »
I have seen mention of the Lyman Blackpowder Handbook in many posts. I am considering buying a copy to learn something of roundball balistics. I see they have a new 2nd edition in the $26 range, but the original can be had for $9. Is there anything in the new version that I need for basic understanding that I can't find in the original version? Thanks, Jim

James - those who have difficulty with shooting without wiping, have not adhered to what is taught in that book. The second edition, does not have the data of the first edition. The first had a black cover.

Round balls are discussed in every calibre size, along with conicals for each size as well. They cover several different barrel lengths.

The ballistic data, ie:X fps for Y grains of powder is not exactly relevent to our powders today. Today's results differ from the ballistics noted in the test. What is important is the trends, the ballistics, ie; drop figures in the back of the book, as well as the 'lessons' taught on loading and shooting.  Is it worth the money? I thought so then and still do today.  I reference it when someone is having trouble here, as needed, but like Ned Robert's "The ML Cap Lock Rifle", I think everyone should have a copy and actually read it and try-out what they say.  No merely read it then ignore what is taught.  Especially important are their discussions on ball and patch fit in the bore, shooting techniques etc. This information along with downrange ballistics, are all in the original book.  The 2nd edition I have, greenish or brownish cover, I think it has, has more stories and gun sales listings from the 70's. I found it of little to no use other than the stories - some were good.

Offline James

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Re: Lyman Blackpowder Handbook question
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2012, 04:00:53 PM »
I ordered the old copy. There is much I don't know and if I learn something for $9 it is worth it.
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun." P.Henry

Daryl

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Re: Lyman Blackpowder Handbook question
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2012, 07:29:51 PM »
Here's a picture of my copy - bought it in the mid 70's, seems to me. As it was falling apart, a friend repaired it for me, adding the binding and covered the covers with plastic for me.

Offline James

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Re: Lyman Blackpowder Handbook question
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2012, 01:44:06 AM »
That's the same cover as on the one headed my way.
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun." P.Henry

Daryl

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Re: Lyman Blackpowder Handbook question
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2012, 02:47:11 AM »
Good!  The drop figures in the back are quite interesting, but their only zero is 50yards.

Offline James

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Re: Lyman Blackpowder Handbook question
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2012, 11:41:05 AM »
That will still be of assistance to me. Will give me an idea of what to figure on for drop.
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun." P.Henry

Offline Old Ford2

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Re: Lyman Blackpowder Handbook question
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2012, 02:04:39 PM »
Some things don't necessarily improve with time! I have the old edition, and find it more useful than the new version.
Fred
Never surrender, always take a few with you.
Let the Lord pick the good from the bad!

Offline James

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Re: Lyman Blackpowder Handbook question
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2012, 03:42:45 AM »
Got my copy today, have only shuffled through it, but what I see so far is very helpful. Thanks for pointing me in this direction. Jim
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun." P.Henry

Offline JCKelly

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Re: Lyman Blackpowder Handbook question
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2012, 04:07:29 AM »
My own observation is older books have real info, newer versions more B.S. And if the new author has a PhD . . .

Another useful book is Ballistics and the Muzzle Loading Rifle, William C. Herring, First Printing September 1974, published by the NMLRA

abebooks.com is my refuge

Offline Frizzen

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Re: Lyman Blackpowder Handbook question
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2012, 05:05:48 AM »
I learned most of what I know from "Muzzleloading Shooting & Winning With The Champions"
You can still find a copy on Amazon. Also by listening to my wife ;D
The Pistol Shooter