Author Topic: Help ID old rifle (Read 7695 times)

VA121 · « **on:** September 13, 2012, 08:50:06 PM »

Good afternoon all.

I have a rifle my grandfather found somewhere along time ago. I would like to get your opinion of where, when and by whom it may have been made. It is stamped in block letters on top of the barrel "C-KLINE", although I can barely make out the "I". I tried to take a picture, but kept getting obscured by the light.

I have attached some photos.

Thanks for any help and information.

Dave.

JTR · « **Reply #1 on:** September 13, 2012, 10:04:12 PM »

Keep working on posting those pictures!
I had a very nice Christian Kline rifle at one time, signed the same as yours.

John

Lucky R A · « **Reply #2 on:** September 13, 2012, 10:53:41 PM »

Not knowing how old you are or your grandfather or how long a "long time ago is, I would jump out there and say this gun was made by someone who knew nothing of gun building probably in the 50s or 60s. the gun appears to be a mishmash of parts cobbled together to make a working gun. Of course the triggerguard being mounted backwards might have been a tip off. It appears that the patchbox may have come from a VA. rifle and may be an original---if so it is probably worth more than the rest of the gun together... I would be real hesitant to shoot this thing, considering the level of workmanship and the age of the parts. Ron

Dennis Glazener · « **Reply #3 on:** September 13, 2012, 11:08:27 PM »

Quote from: Lucky R A on September 13, 2012, 10:53:41 PM

Not knowing how old you are or your grandfather or how long a "long time ago is, I would jump out there and say this gun was made by someone who knew nothing of gun building probably in the 50s or 60s. the gun appears to be a mishmash of parts cobbled together to make a working gun. Of course the triggerguard being mounted backwards might have been a tip off. It appears that the patchbox may have come from a VA. rifle and may be an original---if so it is probably worth more than the rest of the gun together... I would be real hesitant to shoot this thing, considering the level of workmanship and the age of the parts. Ron

I agree with Lucky, but will be more emphatic on the shooting part, I would NOT SHOOT THIS RIFLE. Nice patchbox though.
Dennis

JV Puleo · « **Reply #4 on:** September 13, 2012, 11:11:42 PM »

Wow... and I though I'd seen just about everything. Trigger guard on backwards... whoever made this not only had never seen a real gun.... they hadn't even seen a picture in a book.

Worth about the value of whatever re-usable parts there are in it.
Good point about shooting it... the barrel is probably a piece of gas pipe.

Collector · « **Reply #5 on:** September 13, 2012, 11:18:48 PM »

Dave,

You certainly have a project, that someone with a unique approach, was pursing, on your hands.

It's hard to know where to begin.

The good points:

The barrel points in the right direction from the butt and the trigger, itself, is where it belongs and also pointing in the right direction. I don't know anything about VA patchboxes, but it, along with the buttplate, triggerguard, ramrod pipes, iron ramrod, percussion lock and the barrel, individually, all appear salvageable.

Perhaps there is value in leaving the patchbox and buttplate, in place and separating them, at the wrist, from the rest of this piece. What does the other side of the stock look like and what kind of shape is the barrel in?

It's sad to see pieces in this condition, but it is what it is.

Good luck!

Collector · « **Reply #6 on:** September 13, 2012, 11:36:16 PM »

Took a better look at that patchbox and it indeed is nice and has some wonderful detail.

The profile of the top of the comb, has a kind of "Woodsrunner," look to it, (which would place it, given some of today's research in VA) if you mentally divorce the lock area, stock splice and the resultant 'no-neck,' wrist from it.

Q. What does the other side of the butt look like? Given your photo, there's a cheekpiece there.
Q. What are the dimensions of the buttplate?
Q. What does the inside of the patchbox lid and the cavity look like?
Q. What does the patchbox opening device and spring look like?
Q. What does the toe plate (I forgot that part earlier-

) look like?

You did good in getting your photos posted. Try using a 'slightly-darkish' greenish background and less flash, if you can.

Look forward to seeing more, from you.

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #7 on:** September 14, 2012, 12:19:46 AM »

What photos? I just opened this thread, and the pics are all gone. ZUP?

Dr. Tim-Boone · « **Reply #8 on:** September 14, 2012, 12:25:32 AM »

The photos are still there. I think your Canadian pipes are plugged...

Cory Joe Stewart · « **Reply #9 on:** September 14, 2012, 12:28:15 AM »

I love folk art. I love what folks put together out of necessity. I love this gun. Now it is not perfect in form or in function. But I cannot help but think about the story behind how all those parts came together to become part of that gun. Very interesting and cool.

Coryjoe

LynnC · « **Reply #10 on:** September 14, 2012, 01:36:19 AM »

I don't see no pics either

Bob Roller · « **Reply #11 on:** September 14, 2012, 02:12:53 AM »

This thing may be a stage prop of some kind maybe for a
High school play. It looks like high school shop work to me
and never intended to be fired.
Bob Roller

Collector · « **Reply #12 on:** September 14, 2012, 02:34:54 AM »

The photos are there.

I'd speculate that this thing was altered and cobbled back together for some kids to play with. Couldn't cut the buttstock, so they shortened it through the middle. The triggerguard reversed for (relatively) small hands.

Didn't someone take a Jacob Kuntz longrifle to a gunsmith, to be cut down for his kids to play with, in very recent memory? Fortunately, that was spared the chop saw and grinder, because the gunsmith was knowledgeable enough to contact a collector. This one... not so lucky.

Folk art? It might approach folk art, if they made a wooden rifle with a handsaw, a bit and brace, a scrap piece of soft lumber and some old lead based oil paint, . A shame really.

This didn't come from a person or family that had any history with, knowledge of, or relationship with firearms or anyone in their immediate circle, familiar with firearms, or even antiques. They did manage to 'create' a "relic."

Hopefully, we'll be able to see more photos of the buttstock and some details, to round it out.

mr. no gold · « **Reply #13 on:** September 14, 2012, 02:39:02 AM »

Photos, Photos; what Photos?
Dick

jdm · « **Reply #14 on:** September 14, 2012, 04:43:00 AM »

Photos, Photos; what Photos?
Dick
Your better off not seeing!

TMerkley · « **Reply #15 on:** September 14, 2012, 05:55:49 AM »

And I though my first one looked like $#*!! Oh, maybe it does, at least my trigger guard is facing the right way!

JTR · « **Reply #16 on:** September 14, 2012, 05:59:21 AM »

I think you guys are BSing about the pictures being there!

All I see are the words, "Sorry, This person moved or deleted this image", where the pics should be.

John

LynnC · « **Reply #17 on:** September 14, 2012, 06:44:24 AM »

I get photos moved or deleted. Perhaps its just as well $:-\$

westerner · « **Reply #18 on:** September 14, 2012, 01:34:06 PM »

Sent you a PM, VA121.

Joe.

vtbuck223 · « **Reply #19 on:** September 14, 2012, 10:20:53 PM »

VA121...there are a lot of words of discouragement here...probably why you removed your pics...but I for one find your piece to be very interesting...I would like to see more and better pics...but understand if you don't want to post them. Highschool?....I wish the kids around here were making stuff like that in highschool. Somebody spent a lot of time working on that for whatever reason.......thanks for posting it

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Author Topic: Help ID old rifle (Read 7695 times)

VA121

westerner