Peep sight, sight design question

[PPatch]

Gentlemen;

You others also.  I have been knocking around how to arrange the sights on my upcoming rifle. Old eyes and a feeble sight picture is the problem. I know one of the solutions is to move the rear sight forward to obtain a better sight picture at the cost of a slightly reduced sight radius, and this is what I intended until I got to thinking that the rifle will be used by grandkids and others who still possess good eyesight and I would handicap them with my sight arrangement. On the other hand I did not want to go the route of installing a more modern peep on the tang and ruin the lines of the overall rifle. Reading in “Recreating the American Longrifle” there is a section on making your own sights. And I thought to modify one of the designs shown with a flip-op peep sight. Something like the sketch of mine shown above. One problem with my design is that I very likely will have to silver solder the upper part of the sight to its base while it is on the gun and I am not sure that cause problem in the future. My question is what am I missing since I know others must face the same problem and very likely have more clever (designs ) and ways of solving said problem.

Thank you; Dave

[Jerry V Lape]

Why is it you will have to solder the base on after it is on the rifle?  Either join the upper and lower base with a couple screws or make the two pieces from a single piece of metal. or solder them together off the rifle after they have been carefully fitted. If that bottom piece is made with a little bit of wedge fit that is all you will need to keep it in place.   

[PPatch]

Why is it you will have to solder the base on after it is on the rifle?  Either join the upper and lower base with a couple screws or make the two pieces from a single piece of metal. or solder them together off the rifle after they have been carefully fitted. If that bottom piece is made with a little bit of wedge fit that is all you will need to keep it in place.   

Hi Jerry; Are you saying I would only have to peen down the back of the sight to lock it in, simply not raise the front dovetail? I can see screwing in the base from the bottom, good Idea.

[Lucky R A]

Peep sights to be useful have to be near your eye.  I am afraid that a peep sight located where one would normally locate a traditional open sight would very near to useless.

[Jerry V Lape]

If you make the dovetail a bit of a force fit it is likely the base will not move once in.  But if you must have more security, a simple dimple with a small punch on the edge of the male dovetail will anchor it.  Certainly anchors my barrel lugs and the sights on my rifles.  Or, you could put a small screw through the lower part of the base (the base would be threaded) to exert a little force to lock it in.  You could use one of those allen headed set screws if PC isn't your concern and it won't be seen anyway.   If you used a couple small screws from the top of the sight base to attach it to the lower dovetailed portion , and put those screws in holes elonged from side to side it would fasten the base together and provide for a little windage adjustment as well.  With the peep folded down these screws would be covered from view.

Your drawing would indicate you can't upset the ends of the dovetail anyway because it would cause your sight to not fit flush to the barrel.  

Lucky RA is right about that peep.  However it might work if you make the hole pretty large.

[JDK]

.....or you could just install a standard rear sight for the kids and use a lollipop style tang sight threaded into a hole in the tang for when you shoot it.  Easy to make, remove and install and traditional.

Check this thread out for some ideas:    http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=14449.0

Enjoy, J.D.

[PPatch]

Peep sights to be useful have to be near your eye.  I am afraid that a peep sight located where one would normally locate a traditional open sight would very near to useless.

You are correct Lucky. J.D. posted a link to an old ALR thread on this peep sight subject and I am finding some great ideas there. I could make a lollipop style and make a special place in the patchbox cavity to store it.

[Acer Saccharum]

The farther away the peep is from the eye, the bigger hole you'll need to look thru it.

An aperture 'flattens out' the sight picture. If you were to look thru a peep at the rear sight, front sight, and target, all three will be in focus at the same time. Without the peep, you will only see one of the three in focus at any given time.

A lollipop might function like this, or one of those Merit apertures that sticks to your glasses with a suction cup.

BTW, it's really nice to be able to vary the aperture for the light conditions and sharpness of image.

[bluenoser]

I recently did some experimentation to help a friend with the same vision challenges.  We tried Peeps located along the bbl from the current open sight location to well down the tang.  As Lucky and Tom state, the best loc'n for a peep is close to the eye, but we found it will work (but not as well) further up the bbl - so long as the aperature is opened up as the sight moves forward.

In his case, we couldn't eliminate ghosting and went with the merit concept with a twist.  We drilled an aperature in a pair of flip up sunglasses and cut away the other lens and most of the lens with the aperature.  The end result was a flip up aperature that does not interfere with his hunting vision, but is readily available for the shot.  With the aperature mounted so close to the eye, the ghosting problem went away.

I have another observation regarding your design,  It seems the flip up aperature would be higher than the notch.  Wouldn't that make you shoot high?  If the aperature is the same height as the notch, I would think the notch would interfere with the aperature.  You might consider tying the notch and aperature together as done with the simple flip up aperatures found on some Lee Enfield # 4 rifles.  The two sights (aperatures of different height in this case) are mounted at right angles to each on a single square block.  When the rear one flips up, the front one flips forward.  When the front one flips up, the rear one flips back.  Simple and effective.

Laurie

[Chris Treichel]

There are also lots of peepsight examples where they hang out on a bar off the breech end of the barrel.  It seems that there are hundreds of different arrangements for peep sights like this from Tang mounted to barrel mounted but all seem to try to get that little hole pretty close to the eye. 

The Log Cabin Shop has quite a number of percussian target rifles with peep sights in its museum.
Another good place to look for ideas is a book, The American Schuetzen Rifle.

[ironwolf]

  Those type of sights are are only permisable in "open rifle" in NMLRA competition if you intend to shoot sanctioned matches.

  KW

[Acer Saccharum]

Are the Merit discs as attached to glasses allowed at matches?

[kutter]

I'd soft solder the new sight to the current base already on the bbl if you don't want to take the base off of the bbl.
Large, flat surfaces,,tin them properly and they won't come apart. Many modern guns have sights and even scope bases attached with soft solder.
No holes, done right no discoloration to the metal as the heat is only in the 350/400 range.

As far as the peep sight itself,,there are some Military centerfire bolt action rifles with a peep in a flip up sliding vernier out on the open rear sight. They work OK, though never as sharp an image as the one right in front of your eyeball.

It takes a larger hole in the peep than if it was close up to your eye.
It really helps to have a deep cup hole to shade the aperture when it's that far away from your eye.
Some of the Military ones simply cross hatch lined the face of the flat surface the peep hole is on.
It's not enough to cut the glare if the light is hitting it right and you'll have a problem seeing the front sight through it.

Give it a try. If it doesn't work,,warm it back up with the propane torch, take it off,,try something else.

[PPatch]

I want to thank all of you who provided insight to my question, some of you even went to the trouble of back channeling (PM'ing) me with your thoughts and suggestions, again, thank all of you. I now have a host of ideas and designs and a much better idea of how to proceed. I'm sure I can "get'r done." You guys are great!