Author Topic: Question on "Aging"  (Read 9522 times)

Offline Gaeckle

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Question on "Aging"
« on: September 24, 2012, 05:24:23 PM »
I have a question on aging what we make. This is just a thrown out there as a question for a general consensus.

What is the feelings on applying aging to our stuff, be they rifles, smoothies, horns, shoes, bags....whatever. As artisans (?) are we doing this to be expressive? Are we plying fakery? Are we intending an emotional feeling? Are we telling a story by implying history of time travel?

What sort of techniques do we apply, how much is too much? How much is not enough? Do we apply aging with secret ingrediants (horns dragged behind lawn tractors)?

The reason why I have this floating around in my head is I see a very well made and well executed rifle by Mark Elliot that is just about as nice as they come (GREAT RIFLE AND OUTSTANDING WORK BY THE WAY) and Rich Pierce made a comment on the aging.

So I wonder......why do we practice it? Just wonderin'.......

mjm46@bellsouth.net

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Re: Question on "Aging"
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2012, 05:55:32 PM »
Maybe it's for instant gratification, or an artistic statement, or to give it an aire of antiquity, or maybe it's just to help it sell to someone who will never use it and want's a ready made antique to hang on the wall.  ;D ::)

Offline JCKelly

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Re: Question on "Aging"
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2012, 06:07:08 PM »
I want a fine old, original flint Kentucky.

Can't afford it.  Wouldn't shoot it if I had it, just look at it.

So I built my rifles to look like very well-cared for antiques.
For me, they had a better feeling than something too new & shiney.

Did & do not much care what anyone else thinks.

Offline Jackie Brown

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Re: Question on "Aging"
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2012, 06:08:10 PM »
A gun that was made 200 years ago was new then.  It looked new.  A gun that was new then but used 20 years had a used and cared for look.  An aged gun should have no more than that.  It doesn't make sense to make a longrifle look 200 years old.  A very light aging to look like that 20 year old cared for gun is more in order.

Offline JDK

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Re: Question on "Aging"
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2012, 06:25:29 PM »
I think that depends more on what the person it is being built for wants....doesn't it?

For the re-enactor, I agree with you.  But, the for the person wanting what appears to be an antique for hanging over the fireplace (as was mentioned) then a couple of hundred years of patina would be appropriate...if that is what they want.

Enjoy, J.D.
J.D. Kerstetter

Offline Ed Wenger

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Re: Question on "Aging"
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2012, 06:29:17 PM »
Guys, I don't mean to dampen any responses, this is a great topic and worthy of discussion, and there hasn't been anything silly said by anyone yet.  But, we've seen this topic go down hill before, so I would ask everyone to keep their posts civil and in line with what we're all about here.  This is one of those topics where folks have strong opinions, and we don't want anything to get "nasty"...

Having said all that, I like the looks of an aged gun, "a well cared for antique".  I also enjoy the process greatly, as I feel it brings another level of artistic aspect to building a period piece.

In the Contemporary Blog, Jack Brooks wrote what I think was a very good piece relating to aging, and why it's done.

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Offline rich pierce

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Re: Question on "Aging"
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2012, 06:37:52 PM »
Here was one discussion.  http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=14581.0  If you do a search I think you will find a lot of disucssion about aging.

Some like it, some don't.  Some do it well, others don't, but that is also subjective.  It's too much whenever it is unappealing, but that too is in the eye of the beholder. 

I'd start by asking "Why do people want flintlocks?"  In part, because they are linked to the past.  Past things are old.  Unless a person portrays a person in the past who would have a new gun, then aging may have a lot of appeal.  Certainly it adds a lot of visual interest.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Mike Gahagan

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Re: Question on "Aging"
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2012, 06:49:41 PM »
People love antiques and like someone stated before,most cannot afford an original rifle by a well known builder.It`s the look,feel and small imperfections that draw some to the aged items be it guns,knives,etc.I was watching "American Pickers" on TV awhile back and Mike Wolfe said something that might explain it well.He made the comment that "perfection is boring".I agree that a well made rifle that is perfect in every way is a joy to look at,but an aged one has that extra appeal to it that seems to be missing from the flawless one.

Offline Gaeckle

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Re: Question on "Aging"
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2012, 07:18:37 PM »
Gotta laugh at what Mike says........"Perfection is boring......"

I keep telling that to Mrs. Gaeckle, but she has her opinions. It's sorta funny how she quits pestering me once I take the garbage out.......

snowdragon

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Re: Question on "Aging"
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2012, 08:32:54 PM »
Lately, I've been playing around with "antiquing" techniques, for more of an artistic expression.  It could be argued that aging and antiquing are the same thing, but I feel there is a difference.  If you look at a lot of Hershal House's work, he uses that rough bleached finish on his metal. It's doesn't look like anything that naturally aged, and it doesn't fit in with any traditional finish, but it does add a pleasing artistic appearance.  I can handle doing that kind of work, But wearing off the corners of the barrel and dinging up the lock and trigger guard etc to age a piece, might make me cry.

Same thing with the stock. You can work away the stain with steel wool, add some dark here and there for effect,  even scorch the aqua fortis in spots for some artistic appeal.  It doesn't necessarily look old, just enhanced.

But purposely aging a gun to look old and worn does not appeal to me at all. It makes me think of a movie prop, and the owner is just an actor.  These are real firearms, meant to do real work.  If you want to put wear on your gun, get out and put some honest wear on it. 

I may change my mind if a customer asked me to purposely add wear to a rifle. It would be a challenge in itself to learn to do it right.  The problem is, you need to build a normal gun,  not scrimping on craftsmanship, then tear up your own craftsmanship.  That would be hard.  I may not agree with the customer, but the customer is always right. Bill

Offline bgf

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Re: Question on "Aging"
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2012, 11:52:49 PM »
One thing that keeps occurring to me is that aging is an unconscious (in most cases) revolt against the anachronistic techniques and perfection of finish we seem to force upon ourselves.  A new gun in 1800 would have looked new, but it likely still would have had minor marks of tooling that were too deep to scrape off, ripples in the forearm, pieces slightly askew from being eyeballed (good eyeballs, by the way, but not perfect), etc.  When I started looking at contemporary rifles, I was in awe of the perfection that many of them display, but as soon as I started looking at originals, I felt a real connection with people in times that are barely remembered, doing things a lot more important than building show guns or wallhangers.  Instead of discarding pieces for the tiniest imperfections or mistakes and taking thousands of hours at it, I would like to see some of the top builders build with what they have, using tools available at the time, and on a realistic schedule for making a profit in the day.  That would force compromises that might not require aging to keep the new rifle from looking like a modern factory product. 

Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: Question on "Aging"
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2012, 12:11:49 AM »
Aging is what sells.

Even when I build an "as-new" gun and put it out there, 9 times out of 10, the purchaser will request that it be aged.
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Question on "Aging"
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2012, 12:15:45 AM »
I age guns because it pleases me. After 30+ years that gets to be the most important factor in how/what I  build. I have to keep inspired or my work will start to suffer. I age to different degrees, sometimes dictated to the customer, sometimes dictated by the way I feel about the gun when I'm finishing it. I like the warm feeling that aged guns give. I don't make "as new" guns, BORING.
I also like my BPCR winchesters, sharps etc. aged too. It ain't for everybody, but it works for me and I can still make a living doing it.
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Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Question on "Aging"
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2012, 12:26:52 AM »
I like aged guns myself.

This is another of those threads where I'm right and you're wrong.

Actually, I think it was one of the ancient Roman philosophers who said: 'De gustibus non est disputandum' or "In matters of taste, there can be no disputes"
« Last Edit: September 25, 2012, 12:27:07 AM by Acer Saccharum »
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Joe S

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Re: Question on "Aging"
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2012, 12:49:30 AM »
Eric K – “Ageing” covers a lot of ground.  Do your customers like light aging, to represent say a 5 or 10 year old gun, or the heavy duty 200+ year old “fakes” that you make?

54Bucks

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Re: Question on "Aging"
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2012, 01:04:56 AM »
 I side with the majority with one exception. I prefer some "aged patina"(mainly wood and metal shading) applied to my guns. But I stop short of adding dings, nicks, scratches ect. I'm not trying to kid anyone that I know the story on any original that may be over 200 years old. And I prefer that a reproduction of any degree, that's mine, develope it's own story.

Offline J. Talbert

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Re: Question on "Aging"
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2012, 01:47:07 AM »
Quote
Actually, I think it was one of the ancient Roman philosophers who said: 'De gustibus non est disputandum' or "In matters of taste, there can be no disputes

My recently departed Dad put it simply, "There's no arguing with taste."

As far as aging vs. new I'll take either if well done ;D

I do think that good aging adds some mystique or some other intangible quality that might otherwise be missing.
I also find it interesting to see little details of aging that I probably would not have thought to add. 

It's something akin to studying a super fine gun to find little carving or engraving details not seen at first glance.

Good aging is ,of course , a skill unto itself.

Jeff



« Last Edit: September 25, 2012, 01:58:49 AM by J. Talbert »
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Offline Ed Wenger

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Re: Question on "Aging"
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2012, 03:02:21 AM »
Here's the link to the article I mentioned in my previous post regarding Jack Brook's comments on aging a piece.  Just another perspective...

http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2009/08/aging-contemporary-guns.html



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caliber45

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Re: Question on "Aging"
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2012, 04:14:15 AM »
As in so many things, gentlemen . . . whatever makes your clock tick. What you do is none of my (or anyone else's) business. It's the American way. (Or at least used to be . . .) -- paulallen, greencastle, az

LehighBrad

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Re: Question on "Aging"
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2012, 04:40:21 AM »
All I know is if someone out there starts towing freshly built longrifles on the end of a rope from the back of an ATV, through the dirt and gravel to add "age and patina" to it, I DON'T WANNA SEE IT!  :o THAT scene would probably make me kutz.

IKE

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Re: Question on "Aging"
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2012, 05:41:54 AM »
I would be a poor one to ask but if I was asked I would say. Do what you like and go slow. You will not get two to look the same.
Jerry

Offline Osprey

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Re: Question on "Aging"
« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2012, 01:36:20 AM »
I have the answer all of you are missing.  It's generally old guys that like flintlocks - they want to age their guns so the owner doesn't look like the oldest thing in the house!   ;D
"Any gun built is incomplete until it takes game!"

Offline Jerry V Lape

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Re: Question on "Aging"
« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2012, 03:00:01 AM »
One thing I know for sure about aging - it darned sure hasn't made me more attractive and I don't much care for what it has done for my wife either!!!    >:(

bonron

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Re: Question on "Aging"
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2012, 05:21:07 AM »
Just my $.02./ You build a rifle the way you want. It is what it is. Why fake age? Use it and put the age on it honestly.

Offline Ed Wenger

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Re: Question on "Aging"
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2012, 05:55:38 AM »
That's good, Jerry, lol....


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