How are the Tennessee Valley Muzz kits?

[Andy A]

I am somewhat new to building and was wondering how the Tenn Valley Muzz kits are? Would this be a good next step to try? I have built a ToW kit about 20 years ago.

Andy

[Long Ears]

My first build was a Tennessee Valley Muzzle Loader Lancaster Kit. They are fantastic people to deal with and very helpful. There are better kits that are much more PC/HC. They also cost more money but you get what you pay for.  I do not regret stating with them at all. Bob

[smart dog]

Hi,
I would recommend one of Jim Chamber's kits instead.

dave

[4ster]

I second Dave's recommendation of Jim Chambers.  I built their pistol kit, my second kit build.  It was much easier than the first kit.

[Cory Joe Stewart]

Andy,

Why a kit?  What aspects of the build are you intimidated by?  Inletting? Shaping? etc.

Coryjoe

[Acer Saccharum]

Kits have their own challenges, for sure. Same thing can be said one kit supplier compared with another. Same as building from a blank has its own problems.

One thing I'd like to see us refrain from is bashing a manufacturer. If you want to engage in that, may I suggest you use the PM feature? Thanks for respecting that.


Tom

[Cory Joe Stewart]

I agree with Acer, that is why I asked about what aspects you want to avoid.  My first build was a preshaped stock with the barrel and rr hole drilled.  Everything from the lock back was roughly shaped, but not inlet.  I am now helping my father build a kit.  The kit is great, but I still find it very challenging, and in some aspects more challenging when it comes to the inletting. 

Coryjoe

[bama]

Their kits can be made into a nice rifle. I have used them a good bit for my customers that do not want to go with expense of a more costly kit or a full custom build. There will be more work required in a TVM kit, they have a straight barrels, wood is not as nice and the quality of some of the metal parts will not be as good. Still with all that said for the money I think they are very good. You be the judge.

Here is a little rifle I did that started life as a TVM kit. I did do a lot of extra work to this rifle such as a hand made PB, SP, TP and inlays and PB release but still it started as a TVM.

[Acer Saccharum]

If I had the option when ordering, I'd get the stock without the lock inlet, or, if inlet, order with extra wood. I've had a kit where the lock and sideplate inlets were a hair too big, and I could not relocate for best alignment on the touch hole. Positioning the lock in the existing inlet was VERY time consuming. It was MORE work than if there was no inlet at all.


My point is, sometimes you think a kit will save you time, but it can actually be more work!

[Andy A]

Thanks guys for the replies! Hope I didn't start a ruckus here---that was not intended!

Here are my thoughts on what to build------I am a somewhat inexperienced builder,

I have never tackled a flintlock before and doubt my abilities to make the lock mate with the barrel so that the gun will probably hang fire, and I want to avoid that,

also have been admiring TVM's southern rifle as just a good lookin' gun,

and don't have that much time to build,

also will have it as a demonstrator to Boy Scouts--to show them how early guns were built,

So.....I don't want a super "work of art" type kit, one that is easier to build, and one that will shoot well without problems.That is what I was asking in the first place would TVM fill that---or would some other company serve me better??

[Andy A]

Also I am left handed!!!

[T*O*F]

Andy,
Just buy the cotton pickin' thing.  Whatever you buy, it will be a learning experience.  It's better to learn on a $600 kit than a $1200 one.  Those lessons will serve you better in the long run and your next one can be the latter once you've learned what not to do on the first one.

[Don Tripp]

Nice job Bama. I really like that rifle.

[Acer Saccharum]

As TOF implies, all kits are work. None of them snap together. It would be handy to get some how-to reference material to pore over if you aren't that familiar with building yet. Books and videos will give you some 'look ahead' to the sequential segments of the project. You will learn where to start, and what steps to go thru. This is very useful.

Here's a sequence, recently posted by Mark Elliott:  http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=23449.0

[Cory Joe Stewart]

Let me be clear, I am not knocking the kits.  They can be made into fine rifles, I just want to stress that they can not be looked at as the easy way out.

Coryjoe

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

What Coryjoe said.... some kits do have better architecture than others … which can help a beginner if you don't have any originals to hold and look at

[DB]

Kits are as much of a challenge as a blank to me. Plus you don't have all that extra wood to allow for mistakes.

[bama]

I agree with DB. Starting from scratch can be intimidating but once you start it will be OK if you do your homework. I remember my first gun built from a blank. I got the blank Golden Age arms and paid $100 dollars for it in 1982. I almost got sick to my stomach when I started sawing off slabs on that build. When I actually started to drill the ram rod hole I litterally  had to stop several times to let my stomach settle down.

I don't know about you folks but $100 dollars in 1982 was a lot of money for me. The good thing is the RR hole ended up in the right place, the bad thing was that I had the architecture all wrong and it was hard to get down on the sights. The moral to this story is I learned a lot about what not to do and what to do about gun building. If you always start from a kit you will never be a good gun builder, you may think you are but you are only fooling yourself.

If you want to be a good gun builder you will have to gain the knowledge to start from a blank to figure out what to do and what not to do right from the very start. 

The best thing is to start out with a cheap blank, if you mess up through it away and start over. Everybody likes good wood, and everybody wants good wood. Do yourself a favor and buy the best straight grained blank you can buy for $40 and learn how to build a rifle.

Sorry for the rant boys, I have had a little to much of the local brews down here at the bottom of the earth tonight. Seriously, the kits that are available to today do help the beginer and us folks wanting to save our customers money. If yoiu are serious about learning to build a rifle then get you a plank and make mistakes. You will be amazed at what you learn from your mistakes.

Again good luck with all your builds.

[Larry Luck]

Andy,

I built my second rifle from a kit from the "other TVM" - Tennessee Valley Manufacturing.  I got the late Lancaster kit and was generally pleased with the value.  It did not have the lock inlet, which I preferred, so I saved the Siler for another project and used a Chambers Late Ketland.  Like bama, I added my own patchbox, sideplate, toeplate, etc. 

The suggestion to start with a plain (inexpensive) rather than fancy (expensive) stock blank or precarve is a good one.  You should be able to get a better piece of wood (hard and heavy) for less money.  Straight grained wood is easier to work, also.

Hope your Boy Scouts enjoy your project.   I'm sure they will.

Larry Luck

[Acer Saccharum]

There ya go, Andy, you get all kinds of opinions.   

[Andy A]

Thanks guys!

I will start and jump rite in! I think this round, since working with teens, I will do a kit.

They will get their hands dirty a little and if we mess it up too much, we can get some replacement material.

I probably need to have it right hand as it will be shot by many teens---most folks are right handed.

Thanks for all the options and advice!!