Author Topic: Kibler's blog spot fowling gun.  (Read 21771 times)

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13415
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Kibler's blog spot fowling gun.
« on: October 01, 2012, 03:44:26 PM »
That's the way an English Fowling gun is made!
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline smart dog

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7013
Re: Kibler's blog spot fowling gun.
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2012, 05:30:54 PM »
Hi,
Wonderful gun.  Jim paid attention to every detail and got the look and feel of a mid-18th century English fowler exactly right (like your guns , Mike).  I certainly admire Jim's gunmaking skill, but it is that attention to detail that really draws me to his work.  That requires a great deal of research and astute observation.  It is a very beautiful gun.

dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline Mike Gahagan

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 138
    • Mike Gahagan-Gunmaker
Re: Kibler's blog spot fowling gun.
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2012, 07:01:03 PM »
Could it actually be done any better?I doubt it.

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

  • Member 3
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12671
Re: Kibler's blog spot fowling gun.
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2012, 07:08:31 PM »
Mike G. - that sums it up perfectly.  It's an incredible accomplishment.
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13415
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: Kibler's blog spot fowling gun.
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2012, 07:26:28 PM »
Quote
(like your guns , Mike).
Mine hardly approach this....
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Elnathan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1773
Re: Kibler's blog spot fowling gun.
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2012, 09:09:11 PM »
Is that a handmade lock?
A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition -  Rudyard Kipling

LehighBrad

  • Guest
Re: Kibler's blog spot fowling gun.
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2012, 12:09:04 AM »
Welp.....got me my new desktop background!!!! That fowler is too nice even for Greek God to hunt with!!! ;D

Offline Acer Saccharum

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19311
    • Thomas  A Curran
Re: Kibler's blog spot fowling gun.
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2012, 12:18:55 AM »
...my socks flew right off! Took my boots with them. Oh my, oh my.

That is just a loverly gun. It has tremendous forward motion from the breech to muzzle. That is no accident. Great stock design, Jim. Goodness, what a beauty.
Tom Curran's web site : http://monstermachineshop.net
Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

Offline wpalongrifle

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 217
  • gunmaker/hornsmith
    • mkarkalla.blogspot.com
Re: Kibler's blog spot fowling gun.
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2012, 12:19:29 AM »
Very nice gun!!! everything flows together nicely....chisel work, best traditionally done I've ever seen. great gun Jim...
mike karkalla
F&AM Chartiers Valley#725
North American Order of the Beaver
mkarkalla.blogspot.com

Offline Jim Kibler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4473
    • Personal Website
Re: Kibler's blog spot fowling gun.
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2012, 02:04:02 AM »
Thanks guys for the kind words. To steal a line from Wallace, just looking at these pictures makes me tired.  There's a huge amount of effort that goes into a project like this.  I was happy with the results, but there are things I would do differently or that could be improved on.  Yep, it's a hand made lock.  Or to be clear, it was made by me using hand tools and power machinery.  The lock has a roller on the frizzen as well as the mainspring tip.  The original this gun was based on was likely made in the late 1750's and these features are therefore pretty early.  




I should add that this gun was somewhat based on an original gun built by John Harman.  My version has different wire work, somewhat different engraving, different relief work on the butplate and a slightly different thumbpiece.  Ed Rayl made the barrel, though it was turned full round and I did the breech shaping.  It's mounted in silver, stocked in English walnut.  Pretty much everything is of course custom made.  One key to work like this is to have original work to reference.  Without it, the gun would have been much less succesful.  

Okay, that's all that comes to mind at the moment.  Any questions at all just ask.  I'm happy to share anything.

Jim  
« Last Edit: October 02, 2012, 02:52:12 AM by Jim Kibler »

Offline smart dog

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7013
Re: Kibler's blog spot fowling gun.
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2012, 05:59:55 AM »
Quote
(like your guns , Mike).
Mine hardly approach this....

Hi Mike,
You do your homework and that is what I admire.  Your English guns are authentic and represent what skilled workmen did to produce a product and make a living at it.  In my opinion you stand as tall as Jim or anyone else with respect to English guns.  Your emphasis is just different.

dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline B Shipman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1928
    • W.G. Shipman Gunmaker
Re: Kibler's blog spot fowling gun.
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2012, 07:01:10 AM »
You see guns covered in wire inlay all the time. Yet ther's something lacking. They are nothing but fancy. You see the plainest of rifles that stand out. This has it all.  A sense of art.

Offline Ed Wenger

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2457
Re: Kibler's blog spot fowling gun.
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2012, 12:56:53 PM »
That's one of the most beautiful pieces I've ever seen, seriously, incredible execution in all areas.  Very well done Jim.


         Ed
Ed Wenger

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13415
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: Kibler's blog spot fowling gun.
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2012, 02:58:16 PM »
Quote
(like your guns , Mike).
Mine hardly approach this....

Hi Mike,
You do your homework and that is what I admire.  Your English guns are authentic and represent what skilled workmen did to produce a product and make a living at it.  In my opinion you stand as tall as Jim or anyone else with respect to English guns.  Your emphasis is just different.

dave
I appreciate your compliments. But, this Kibler gun has really got it. The only other English fowling gun I have seen at this level is one by Mark Silver.
 An incredible accomplishment when you consider how architecturally beautiful it is that it also has nearly all hand made parts. Makes me tired just to consider the labor involved.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Ken G

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5526
  • F & AM #758
Re: Kibler's blog spot fowling gun.
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2012, 04:18:06 AM »
Jim,
Wow!  That is one outstanding piece of work.  Really beautiful execution. 
Ken
Failure only comes when you stop trying.

Offline Jim Kibler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4473
    • Personal Website
Re: Kibler's blog spot fowling gun.
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2012, 04:01:55 PM »
Thanks for the nice comments guys.  Sure appreciate it :)

Jim

Offline G-Man

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2217
Re: Kibler's blog spot fowling gun.
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2012, 06:13:00 PM »
There is so much unique work on this gun it is easy to overlook things.  Everything is fantastic, but one topic that people have not mentioned much and I would like to hear more about - the silver mountings on this fowler.  The original Harman fowler has my favorite mounts I have ever seen on an English gun - everything is in martial trophy motifs with exquisite detail.  Jim's work fully conveys the feel of the original but with his own unique differences.  They really "make" the gun  and render it one of a kind.

Maybe Jim can mention more about how he went about making the mounts? 

Guy

Offline Acer Saccharum

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19311
    • Thomas  A Curran
Re: Kibler's blog spot fowling gun.
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2012, 07:39:36 PM »
Maybe Jim needs to rest for a while. If he gets tired just looking at the photos, you know this has been a long haul.

Incredible work, Jim. I am speechless. I know, that's hard to believe. From the lock to the mounts, to the wire work, a mountain of commentary and questions will ensue. For now, I'll just sit and look at the photos.

Tom Curran's web site : http://monstermachineshop.net
Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

Offline Jim Kibler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4473
    • Personal Website
Re: Kibler's blog spot fowling gun.
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2012, 09:54:25 PM »
With regard to the making the mounts, it was a combination.  I liked the sideplate and guard so I used the original pieces as patterns for investment casting.  I wanted the designs of the butplate and thumbpiece to be different than the original, so I carved masters out of polyurethane foam modeling board and then used these for the investment casting.  The casting process involved making wax injection molds, injecting waxes and then in this case, sending the waxes to a foundry for casting.  The silver parts then needed to be cleaned up using gravers, scrapers, stones etc. to get good definition and surface finish.  I might add that I used silicon rubber molds for the wax injection process.  It works well for complex surfaces and low volume runs such as this.  I'll see if I can't get some pictures of the masters I carved and the molds, waxes etc.   Oh, when using the original parts as masters, I had to build up some areas up prior to making the injection molds.  For example there was some damage to the grip rail and a few other places that I built up with tape and thin cardboard first.  I also added to the grip rail to account for shrinkage.  I think I also used plumbers putty as well to fix some problem areas. One difficulty with castings you get from places that have used original parts as patterns is that they don't generally do anything with the problem areas prior to making the molds.  It's a lot easier to make a fix in the first place.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2012, 04:46:34 AM by Jim Kibler »

Offline smart dog

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7013
Re: Kibler's blog spot fowling gun.
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2012, 07:11:47 AM »
Hi Jim,
I urge you to make or buy a few die sinkers chisels for cleaning up your castings and cutting details.  They work really well and in much the same fashion as wood chisels.  I think they will make the metal shaping and detailng work very enjoyable.

Wonderful gun Jim.  It is one of the most beautiful English fowlers of any time period that I've ever seen.
As always, your friend,

dave 
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline Jim Kibler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4473
    • Personal Website
Re: Kibler's blog spot fowling gun.
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2012, 02:28:28 AM »
Thanks Dave.  Tell me more about the chisels you mentioned.  I have some die sinker chisels that I use for some engraving and relief chisel work, but I didn't use them for clean up of the investment cast mounts.  I'm always looking for a better way!

Jim

Offline aaronc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 793
Re: Kibler's blog spot fowling gun.
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2012, 04:48:55 AM »
Inspiring work for sure,.......a fine example of some truly incredible inlay. I'm a fan.
- Aaron C
At the work bench.

Vomitus

  • Guest
Re: Kibler's blog spot fowling gun.
« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2012, 09:48:45 PM »
   When I first spotted this young bucks work I thought,this kid is going places.Yehaa, way to go Jim.You really nailed this one.Great piece!

Offline Jim Kibler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4473
    • Personal Website
Re: Kibler's blog spot fowling gun.
« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2012, 02:51:15 AM »
Well, I may be going places, but lately I've been wondering where ;)  Here's a few more shots of the butplate master, the wax, and sideplate mold.  Any questions just ask.  Thanks again fellows.







« Last Edit: October 06, 2012, 02:52:38 AM by Jim Kibler »

Offline J. Talbert

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2309
Re: Kibler's blog spot fowling gun.
« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2012, 04:07:49 AM »
G S must be one happy individual ;D

Wow!!!

Jeff
There are no solutions.  There are only trade-offs.”
Thomas Sowell