Major Stock Mistake

[grabenkater]

 

I was stripping the finish from an Italian made 1861 Springfield. I was using aerosol stripper and it was doing a decent job, but it was taking multiple coatings to soften the glass like coating the Italians use. On the final spray I accidentally grabbed a can of oven cleaner that I had used for cleaning my BBQ grill. Needless to say, the stock turned almost black with in seconds.

Any chance of restoring this?

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

sand paper or scrapers......

[grabenkater]

Its a good thing that the Italians make the wood fat on these 

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

True.. Be sure to neutralize with lots of water.

[grabenkater]

Would it be beneficial to apply baking soda paste?

[Acer Saccharum]

Ummm, I thought oven cleaner was a base. You would want to neutralize with acid to bring it to a neutral PH.

Any chemists here?

[docone]

I use Easy Off! to remove my finishes on my rifles. It works great.
You have to rinse the cleaner off and let dry. It gets deeply into the wood.
All you do is rinse under running water. To blend the colours from removing the stains, keep applying unitll it all looks the same.
I like the stuff. Really cleans the wood.

[grabenkater]

You are correct! I need to apply vinegar to neutralize it.

It was a stupid mistake, I was reaching for the stripper.....

Maybe I should rephrase that, I was reaching for the paint remover 

[TMerkley]

It may have helped to give you an aged look.  Just trying to think positive.

[Jerry V Lape]

Ah, I understand the problem now - you were thinking stripper when you grabbed the wrong can!   

[Dennis Glazener]

Maybe I should rephrase that, I was reaching for the paint remover  Undecided

A bad day for both of us. I had a plug in the end of a barrel that I had been browning. Pulled the plug and thought I would spray some WD40 in it and scrub it good to make sure I got any surface rust out before it could get any worse. Problem was I picked up a can of spray lacquer instead! Hope I got all of it out.
Dennis

[T*O*F]

Ummm, I thought oven cleaner was a base. You would want to neutralize with acid to bring it to a neutral PH.

Any chemists here?

I always chuckle when I see these chemical conversations.  Water has a PH of zero and acidic and basic branch out from either side.  Thus there are various degrees of each.  If you use water to neutralize either, it will be neutral when you have removed the offending substance.

To neutralize a base with an acid, you would have to know the PH of the base and use the corresponding PH of acid to get a neutral reaction.  However, in the process, your acid and base could react with one another and leave undesireable compounds behind in the wood.

If you want to remove anything in the wood, just scrub it down with water and let it dry thoroughly.

[Black Hand]

Ummm, I thought oven cleaner was a base. You would want to neutralize with acid to bring it to a neutral PH.

Any chemists here?

Water has a PH of zero and acidic and basic branch out from either side.  

Actually, water (pure) is more a pH of 7, and the pH will vary according to dissolved materials.  A pH of 0 is as acid as you can get...

[T*O*F]

Actually, water (pure) is more a pH of 7,

I stand corrected.  I should have said water is NEUTRAL and is the standard by which others are measured.

and the pH will vary according to dissolved materials.

Aren't the dissolved materials (ions) what determine the PH?  Can you measure  the PH of something that is not in solution?  Conversely, what is the PH of a DRY gunstock?

[kutter]

To neutralize oven cleaner used on wood (usually to draw oil out of the wood), use wood bleach.
Don't use regular laundry breach!!

Wood bleach is oxalic acid, a somewhat weak acid and used in a water soln to coat the wood.
You can buy it in granular form at home improvement store in the paint section. Usually comes in a plastic container . This is the stuff I've always used,,undoubtedly others:
http://www.savogran.com/Information/Wood_Bleach_PD.pdf

I mix 3 or 4 tablespoons of the stuff to a quart jar of water. Then put the jar in the microwave for 30-40 seconds. Just enough to warm it up.
Then with the wood wet from flushing the oven cleaner off,,you brush the woodbleach onto the wood. I even dunk small pieces like forends right into the jar.

Do it in a wash basin,,wear old clothes, a shop apron, eye protection and gloves are recommended. You don't want it in your eyes,,it will sting your hands a bit,,it'll really sting any open cut on your hands!

Brush and slosh the stuff over the wood freely. The wood will return to natural color while you're working on it. Black marks and other oven cleaner discolorations will disappear. It'll lighten the wood somewhat (it is wood bleach after all!). When it's of suitable color to you. rinse with clean water.

Pat it dry with paper towels and hang it to dry. You can accelerate the drying with a light touch of a propane torch,,but edges are easily burned as you watch in amazement the moisture drying up.

Be very careful when handling the wet wood. It will be soft and dented easily. All returns to normal when dried.

The water bath doesn't soak in very deeply anyway and a day or so it'll be dry and ready to go.
It'll look like a brand new fresh piece of lumber.

Done it this way for many years.

Works good on any older stock to remove spots and discolorations. Oxalic acid is used by furniture restorationists to remove water marks and the like on finishes.
Some cartridge gun stockmakers routinely bleach the wood on new builds before stain and finishing. They say it gives them a better surface to start with and a more even color base.

[Joe S]

Aren't the dissolved materials (ions) what determine the PH?  Can you measure  the PH of something that is not in solution?  Conversely, what is the PH of a DRY gunstock?

pH is the concentration of hydronium ions [H₃O] in an aqueous solution.  A gunstock is not in solution, therefore has no pH.

[Mark Elliott]

Kutter,  This is a really great piece of information.   I would have just scraped it away.   Now I have another option to get rid of those accidental spots and discolorations.

Thanks,

Mark E.

[Habu]

From a furniture resto perspective, Kutter has the concentration right: about 4 oz per quart of water results in a saturated solution (I've always wondered if a microwave would work to heat it up and get more oxalic acid in solution--thanks Kutter!).  Most of the time you are OK using tap water for this, but occasionally the mineral content of the water can interfere a bit.  If you have a high iron content in the water, you might want to use distilled water. 

You may want to add one more step though.  On occasion, you can get a reaction between the residual oxalic acid and some ingredient of your stain or finish.  I've only had serious problems once, but that cost me a couple days work, so now I neutralize the oxalic acid with a baking soda solution (2 level Tablespoons of baking soda dissolved in a quart of distilled water).  Just mop it on after rinsing off the oxalic acid solution, let it sit for a couple minutes, then rinse it off. 

[wilkie]

From what I remember from woodworking classes I had in college oxalic acid is used to bleach wood to a white color.  A furniture refinishing book I read said to remove black water marks from wood you should ammonia.  This will remove the black rings made by water but will darken the wood somewhat.  To bleach the wood back to near the original color you use ordinary laundry bleach.  Seems to work this way on the furniture that I have refinished.

[grabenkater]

After inspecting the stock this evening, I discovered that I had a blessing in disguise. The European walnut used by the Italians had turned a nice dark chocolate color. It no mimics the black walnut shade of the original Springfield muskets!

[kutter]

Laundry bleach works OK to lighten the color of the wood. If you use it on gunstocks you can run into the problem of the chlorine bleach residue still in the wood even after a good rinse.
The main ingredient sodium hypochlorite (sp?) is not a friend to wood. Worse yet however is what happens to any inletted metal parts if a bit of moisture/humidity is introduced.
Severe pitting can result under the wood line. Something on the order of the salt wood problem Browning had if the concentration is enough.

I've never had a walnut stock go to 'white' color. Just lighten up a few shades and even things up. The discolorations disappear. It will not remove oil from the wood. That is a separate process to be done before the bleaching.
Oven cleaner being one method, though not a very thorough one. There doesn't seem to be anything quick about drawing deep down oil out of a piece of wood.

Ammonia can be used to darken wood.
Fuming w/concentrated ammonia was popular in the funiture biz. Oak was a popular subject. I don't know if it could be used on a gunstock of any of the commonly used species of wood to any advantage,, I doubt it.
Ammonia fuming can also be used to put a fairly quick patina on brass.

[Habu]

Ammonia fuming, typically with 26% ammonia solution (not 5% household ammonia solution), is most often done with quartersawn white oak.  It will work with most woods having a high tannin content.  Sometimes one component of an oak furniture piece (or even a spot on one component) won't fume as dark as the rest.  The usual touch-up technique is to brushing first tannic acid, then ammonia, directly on the lighter spots. 

You can directly apply tannic acid to woods like maple or walnut in a similar manner, then fume or directly apply ammonia; the question I'd have is why?  It doesn't seem to offer any benefits over the other stains we commonly use on stockwoods.  Fuming goes well with quartersawn white oak because it accentuates the ray flecks. 

While it can be done if you apply tannic acid to the wood first, fuming offers no advantages with woods like curly or birdseye maple, where traditional stock stains like aqua fortis do so well.  On some beech, it can give very nice results, much as it does with q-sawn white oak.  Sometimes it darkens walnut, sometimes not--it depends on the tannin content of the piece.  Ammonia fuming can have some . . . "unpredictable" . . .  effects on cherry, and I wouldn't try it without first doing some testing on scrap from that piece.

Having scribbled all that, I have to admit I've used it a couple times when doing repairs, because it does offer a way to get very dark, lightfast staining to small pieces of wood.  But almost anyone who's done repairs on antiques will admit to trying almost anything that might work as a stain at one time or another. 

[pathfinder]

Ya beat me to it Kutter! Oxilic acid is good to remove the tannin stains,not so much for "bleaching" color fron the wood. The 2 part peroxide solution is best for that,and work from THE BOTTOM UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My Grandfathr,Father and I used to fume the oak in bank's and library's back in the day before all the "modern" stuff moved in. I REALLY miss the biz!