Plank Rifles

[SPG]

Gentlemen,

Mr. Phariss and I were discussing the last Cody match and the fact that we are both more and more coming to believe that many of the old original rifles that we see with what we think is excessive drop were actually rifles designed specifically for matches, i.e. plank shoots. Dan had a great point in that in Northeast winters, plank shoots were easier to do than laying in the snow, especially when the snow is 2 feet deep.

We tend to look at these rifles and wonder why anyone would design a stock with these proportions. I don't think that we still understand how important target shooting was in many communities. Understand that I'm not talking of longhunter stuff here; these were rifles used by people living in the country, but not in the howling wilderness. Tavern matches were the basic entertainment and also provided social interaction. Much as in England, New Zealand and Australia today, the pub many times is the social center of the community. Your rifle and how well you shot it (and how good it looked) was very important to the typical male...sometimes females as well.

A recently acquired D. King flint rifle of .40 caliber has a Roman-nosed stock with 5 inches of drop from the top barrel flat to the heel of the buttplate. It works very well off the plank...much better than other stock designs in that it allows the right elbow to be securely rested on the plank while still providing face contact on the stock. This is a significant advantage for steady holding.

I know that there are others here that have much more experience in match shooting and longrifle design than me...I'd be interested in their opinions, both from a practical and historical perspective.

Steve

[Paul Griffith]

I got to ask........what is "plank shootin"?  For some reason this one has managed to get by me.

[smokinbuck]

Paul,
You beat me to it. I too would like a definition, or picture, of plank shooting.
Mark

[WadePatton]

ja, me too.

i picture it as "crude" rest, old-timey bench.  possibly more erect.

which is how i shoot the big stuff for sighting purposes, off a tall rest so that i'm standing and not battered.

whoops, now yall goes on and 'splain the plank thingy thankyouverymuch.

POST #3 here:  http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=23301.0

something about a sawhorse and a board...

[smokinbuck]

Wade,
Thanks for the link, the picture says it all.
Mark

[Daryl]

Remember reading some where, some time ago, the excessive heal drops in some rifle designs were for shooting around trees, Steve.  Considering these drops seemed I think, to come at a later date than the earlier Eastern Indian wars, I like your 'interpretation' of the design somewhat better - makes sense.

[T*O*F]

We tend to look at these rifles and wonder why anyone would design a stock with these proportions

Steve,
These guns are deceiving because of their appearance, hence the many naysayers about their design.  They don't shoot around trees.  They are shot off the bicep.  When brought up, you can maintain a perfectly straight stance and your eye falls directly on the sights.  No hunching up, putting the head down on the stock or craining the neck.  Anytime someone new comes over to the shop, I have them try it just as an experiment.  They all say it fits them better than any gun they've ever held.  This is from a 6'3" 300 pounder with fat cheeks and thick neck down to a skinny little 5'8" 150 pound dude.  Only a slight adjustment of the bicep up or down is required to bring it into a perfect hold.

The bottom is an original and the top is one I threw together from spare parts around the shop.

[WadePatton]

Wade,
Thanks for the link, the picture says it all.
Mark

quite welcome,

hey i didn't even get that far.  there were about 4 results to the search and most of them had to do with stock blanks--planks.

and there's a couple more pages (of ye thread above) to see yet.  might even learn sumthin else today.  cerebral loading.

now i gotta build a darned saw horse...

[SPG]

TOF,

Exactly...just like a Schuetzen rifle. The tight, hooked buttplates on a Schuetzen require consistent placement on the arm...not the shoulder. Changing the placement of the buttplate seriously changes bullet impact.

Shoot around trees? I'd never heard that one. Of course, I've lived a somewhat sheltered life.

We have to remember that stock designs weren't arrived at based on a whim. There was a reason, even if it's not readily apparent to us in this day and age.

Steve

[Dphariss]

This is what causes the horizontal stringing of shots and/or shots to the left or right.



This paintng "Turkey Match at Sarasota Springs" shows the plank rest when the artist lived in that area sometime before  the 1870s when he painted it.

 
Looking at this something occurs. The "chuck match" common to the area south of the Ohio River is less practical in states that are farther north. Shooting a match in winter with any significant snow on the ground would be impossible using chunk rules. It would be only an inconvenience with the plank rest.
I would also point out that the plank would be very effective as a rest behind a stockade.
All this thinking, as usual, raises more questions.
We do have to remember that rest matches were very common back in the day.
So far as I can tell they were more common than offhand matches.
In Reverend Joseph Doddridge's "Notes on the Settlements and Indian Wars of the Western Parts of Virginia and Pennsylvania, 1763-1783", he is describing a log or stump used as a rest. With pads of moss or other soft material to cushion the rifle.
Stating that "The present mode of shooting offhand was not then in practice. This mode was not considered any trial of the value of the gun, nor, indeed, as much of a test of the skill of a marksmen"
This was found on pg 79 of LaCrosse's  "The Frontier Rifleman".
This is just one account but its a pretty good account of a rest match using what ever was available and from reading his account he saw more than one. Stating that "Shooting at marks was a common diversion among the men< when their stock of ammunition would allow it."

Dan

[T*O*F]

Shoot around trees? I'd never heard that one.

Daryl "may" have read it in this article which I transcribed and posted long before this forum ever existed.

It's a discussion of Daniel Boone's gun, originally written in the 1920's.

http://home.comcast.net/~illinewek/faqs/boonegun.htm

[Daryl]

Could be, TOF - I thought it might have been printed in an old MuzzleBlasts - maybe late 1970's or 80's era?

[smokinbuck]

T*O*F,
That original plank rifle is pretty nice, but I really like your "thrown together" parts rifle.
Mark

[T*O*F]

Mark,

Back when I had more energy than brains, I'd get an interesting gun in and decide I needed to make one like it, especially if I had the parts.  I actually finished this one before I got bored or put it on the rack for another project.  Its never been fired.

Both guns are on the list  of stuff I'm shedding, but I'm suffering from terminal procrastination and never seem to get around to it.

[awol]

Yes, I've been thinking that also.  I've wondered if the 1/2-stocked NY rifles with perch-bellies (such as the one TOF shows, and which don't fit me the way I shoot off-hand) were made for plank shooting.  But have you tried one on the plank set-up?
I'm told that often the men would shoot after church on Sundays.

[smylee grouch]

I have a Vincent style rifle that shoots real good groups that might be OK for plank shooting but there are some of us guys that cant get down on our artifical knees so regular chunk gun matches are our best bet even if its getting more dificult to get up off the ground. I would still like to try this plank shoot even if it hurts to do it.   Smylee

[dagner]

 paul -mark   they been runing a plank shoot over in souther mo for 100 years    insted of picknic table they use  one wide board and a chair   sandbag front and off shoulder in the rear   the difference is they shoot it at 60 yards   they shoot 3 shots on a cirle target and count the pionts for round winner  in case of tie farthes shot from center is looser what is fun is a roofing nail is put in center of target  you shoot the roodfing nail and  out target falls down everyone cheers   talk to doug scott he has shot the match quite a bit ovewr the years

[Don Getz]

Sounds like a fun match.   One thing I don't understand is the excessive drop in the stock.  I can't understand how you can "cheek" the gun and still be able to see the sights.   Years ago Ron Borron built me a neat southern style chunk gun.
It had a lot of drop in the stock and I did not shoot it well until I built up the cheekpiece with three layers of leather,
which required cheeking rather hard in order to line up the sights.  The first year that I shot it with the built up cheekpiece
I finished fifth at the Alvin York shoot.  I shot a 6+ inch string, which today wouldn't even get me into the top ten category.
Don

[Roger Fisher]

Sounds like a fun match.   One thing I don't understand is the excessive drop in the stock.  I can't understand how you can "cheek" the gun and still be able to see the sights.   Years ago Ron Borron built me a neat southern style chunk gun.
It had a lot of drop in the stock and I did not shoot it well until I built up the cheekpiece with three layers of leather,
which required cheeking rather hard in order to line up the sights.  The first year that I shot it with the built up cheekpiece
I finished fifth at the Alvin York shoot.  I shot a 6+ inch string, which today wouldn't even get me into the top ten category.
Don

This Sunday at Langhorne (Penna) we will be shooting such a match (If I managed to talk ol Mike Jaurnotowski in to it) We will see if a drop in the stock is really a must.

[Dphariss]

Its not a must.
This rifle works very well for plank shooting.



From a straight edge ballanced on the sights it has about 3 5/32 drop at the heel
I think increasing the drop may allow resting the rifle closer to the muzzle. I rest this rifle at the second barrel Key from the breech. This is just short of the mid point of the barrel. From the top of the barrel flat its under 3".
This is RCA #48 with modifications to allow a 1 1/4" barrel.

Dan

[smylee grouch]

Dan, that plank rifle shur sounds like a husky rascal, what cal. and how much does it weigh?   Smylee

[Dphariss]

Dan, that plank rifle shur sounds like a husky rascal, what cal. and how much does it weigh?   Smylee

50 cal weighs 17 3/4.

Dan

[smylee grouch]

So if your 17+ pound gun is ok for plank shooting, my 12+ pound chunk gun would be ok too?  Smylee

[Kermit]

Noodling in the NRA virtual museum I came across this and thought of this thread. Coulda been a plank rifle maybe? Looks almost Bedford-ish to my unschooled eye.

http://www.nramuseum.org/the-museum/the-galleries/the-prospering-new-republic/case-29-the-rifle-shop-and-the-plains-rifle/nicanor-kendall-(windsor,-vt)-underhammer-percussion-rifle.aspx

Too bad the NRA is so very lousy at actually telling us about these guns. Grrrrr. Not so much as caliber or barrel length, much less such insignificant efemera as twist rate. Who is running that outfit?

[Dphariss]

Noodling in the NRA virtual museum I came across this and thought of this thread. Coulda been a plank rifle maybe? Looks almost Bedford-ish to my unschooled eye.

http://www.nramuseum.org/the-museum/the-galleries/the-prospering-new-republic/case-29-the-rifle-shop-and-the-plains-rifle/nicanor-kendall-(windsor,-vt)-underhammer-percussion-rifle.aspx

Too bad the NRA is so very lousy at actually telling us about these guns. Grrrrr. Not so much as caliber or barrel length, much less such insignificant efemera as twist rate. Who is running that outfit?

Kendall was a genius in firearms. He was partnered with Robbins and Lawrence at one time. The people that essentially invented modern milling machines in order to mass produce firearms. I have little doubt that Kendall had some input.
I would LOVE to have the rifle....

Underhammer rifles were very popular in the N.E.  and a great many very fine rifles were made using this system.
So far as being used in Plank Matches? Very possible. Made just for that? Not likely. But at this date who would know.
Dan