16 gauge fowler with shot. help!!

[sonny]

Well the leaves here in pa. are changing an the thought of shooting my 16 gauge smoothbore for running an flying critters got me pumped. I never pulled the trigger of smoothbore with shot. I would love to get a decent load with felt wads an cut down on over powder/fiber wads/over shot cards. I have 12 gauge woolen felt oxyoke/wonder wads that i use for shotgun but can they be used for 16 gauge smoothbore guns? They seem a might bunched up to get started down the bore. Has anybody used 12 gauge stuff for 16 gauge use??...hummmmm.............sonny

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Wads for practically all shotguns are really cheap.  They're made by Ox Yoke and sold by various suppliers including TOW and MBS.  Get the wad that is correct, and enjoy the full potential of your pelter.

[sonny]

thanks for the rely!........do you own or shoot a 16 gauge smoothie? ever shoot the oxyyoke wonder lube felt wads for shot?..................thanks.......sonny

[Robby]

Sonny, I us a 16 Ga. for turkey, ducks, geese and trap shooting and got my cards and wads from The Track. http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Search.aspx/3?search=wads
Smoothies are cool!
Robby

[northmn]

V. M. Starr was a name in shotgunning and did not use felt wads.  He recommended card wads for overpowder wads.  I have had success with a 12 and 20 bore just carrying appropriate overpowder wads and loading one 1/8 inch cared wad over the powder and peeling off a thiner piece for overshot.  Some like a lubricated fiber wad for ease of reloading, but they can "blow" the pattern.  We get too excited about wads in a BP shotgun.  Granddad used cut wads, wasps nest and even leaves.  I finished off a shoot off in a BP trap shoot one time using napkins from a concession stand and won the thing.  The confetti when I shot was kind of neat.  However card wads are best in dry woods as some things can start a fire. (knew some guys that had to put one out using toilet paper when hunting sharptails) 
While I have thought the 16 might be an ideal ga in a fowler I went with a 20 as I could get a round ball mold cheaper.  For my use gauge does not mean a lot as a 20 bore is plenty for deer and the shots have to be close anyway.  Good shooting, ahve fun.

DP

[smokinbuck]

Sonny,
I have a couple of 16ga guns as well as a 12 ga. I do not use cushion wads in any of them and get superior patterns, 55% on an 8.5X11 piece of paper, at 30 yards using equal charges of powder and shot. One over powder card and two over shot cards.
Mark

[sonny]

smokenbuck...........no woolen felt wads?....sonny

[Robby]

Sonny, I use the over powder heavy cardboard and a cushion wad on top of that, but After some experimenting found that I get better patterns if I peal that cushion wad apart to where it is only about an eight to three sixteenths inch thick.
Robby

[Feltwad]

Sonny

For shooting flying I find the 16 bore{Gauge} a good all round gun here in the UK .I always use a volume load of 2.1/2 drms of FFg powder to 1 oz of No 5 shot,I use a 1/8 inch card wad over the powder and 1/16 card wad over the  shot, I do not use felt wads but if the gun becomes too coked then a little spittle down the bore will do.I have used 16,14,12 for game  for many decades and I find the 16  because of its lightness a very fast gun enclosed are images of 16 bore guns from my collection
Feltwad

A brace of 16 bore percussion shotguns


Flintlock Coversions in 16 bore

[Stormrider51]

I did some testing recently with a 20 gauge fowler.  The use of an over powder card, felt wad, and an over shot card gave poor results.  The pattern seemed to develop a thin spot in the middle.  Leaving out the felt wad worked much better.  I also tried tow over powder followed by the shot and another ball of tow with good results.

Storm

[sonny]

stormrider51...........amazing!..........you would think that using a heavy overpowder card, then a felt wad to stop the pellets from deforming, with a thin over shot card would be the hot setup.geeez..... overpowder wad-shot-ver shot card don't seem like it would protect enougth.....Is your gun choked at all or stright bored?..........sonny

[Stormrider51]

It's straight bored.  I started experimenting because of reports from others that a felt wad was "blowing through" the shot charge and causing "donut holing" in the pattern.  I didn't think it could happen because the felt wad should fall behind the heavier shot quickly.  I still don't understand why but I did find a definite and repeatable thinning of the shot pattern in the center when using a thick lubed felt wad.  Keep in mind that this was what I found in my smooth bore using using 80 grains of FFFg and an equal amount of shot by volume.  You might get different results.

Storm

[hammer]

Feltwad, do I read that as meaning you don't use a felt or vegetable fibre wad on top of the over-powder wad?

Thanks,

Hammer.

[Feltwad]

Hammer that is correct I do not use a feltwad  I have found that a 1/8th card over powder wad is sufficient,if a feltwad is used then it will need a 1/8th wad both top and bottom of the feltwad most important is the top wad failure to use a top will certainly blow your pattern but worse still the shot embeds in the feltwad and leaves the gun like a bullet,this I have seen on several occasions when game shooting with birds shot were in such a mangled state and not fit to eat. To me a feltwad is not needed if the gun becomes coked resulting in  difficulty to ram the wad home then a bit of spittle in the bore will help .
Feltwad

[Kermit]

Glad to see V. M. Starr brought up.

Before I read of his load development and patterning, I was one of those with all kinds of wads and cushions and such. It worked, mostly, but was a real PITA, especially in the field. What Starr came to as a load was to carry only THIN OVERSHOT CARDS.

The column was powder, 2 cards, shot, 1 card.

I was giddy with the simplicity of it, and eager to try it out. I did, and found he was right. He was mostly shooting cylinder borred SxS  percussion double originals. I've applied it to my long-barreled flint fowling pieces as well, and find it performs well whether in pursuit of clay, feathers, or fur. I'm forever told it can't work, and there must be some reason to replicate modern shotshell load columns in blackpowder burning cylinder borred muzzleloaders.

I simply suggest you try it. Works for me as well as it did for Starr.

[sonny]

kermit...........those thin cards for over powder an shot was from circle fly?....sonny

[Kermit]

Sonny--exactly. That's all I've used with shot for 20 years, at least. I merely suggest you try it, and pattern it. You can always buy more stuff if your mileage varies.

BTW, Starr was also an advocate of equal volumes of shot and powder. Another simplicity. One measure.

[tpr-tru]

Kermit,   do you lube the wads at all ?    Are you wiping after each shot ?   The reason I ask is that I tried two overshot cards over powder - shot - then overshot card.   The next load down was impossible.  If I use a lubed overpowder card  shot then overshot card, I can keep right of shooting, with no wiping.

[Feltwad]

Using over shot wads must be no less than 1.1/16 inch because thinner wads sometimes when ramming down the ramrod by passes them leaving the wad clinging to the side of the bore , this then becomes a obstruction resulting in a burst barrel.[see image.]
Over powder wads which are the first down the barrel should be strong and made from 1/8th solid card when I am shooting 12 gauge and smaller I just use  one 1/8th over powder wad and two over powder wads on the big 4,6,8 .Has for lube on card wads I do not use and can fire from 50 t0 100 shots and rarely have a coked bore if a wad  do,s become hard to ram down spittle in the bore and then the wad or moist the wad in your mouth.
Feltwad

[Kermit]

At the range, I put three cards in my mouth before measuring the powder. So the short answer is "spit." Afield, lube some with your favorite googe and put them in a tin. Using spit I've shot rounds of 25 without wiping. Maybe I should have my saliva analyzed, huh? Might be it's the magic of those Getz barrels I'm shooting. 

[Vomitus]

   This may not be new, but I'm theorizing some here. I'd like to test an over shot card over the fiber wad to see if one can get a better pattern. My theory is:if shot embeds in the fibre wad making it heavier, this may blow donuts into the pattern. With a light card wad on top,it may keep the shot from embedding in the said fibre wad.So my load would be : powder,over powder card,fiberwad,over shot card,shot,over shot card. One extra shot card . Just a theory, but would like to pattern it...soon. Maybe others have tried it,dunno.
  Sorry, I corrected the wad thing with cards.

[Feltwad]

   This may not be new, but I'm theorizing some here. I'd like to test an over shot wad over the fiber wad to see if one can get a better pattern. My theory is:if shot embeds in the fibre wad making it heavier, this may blow donuts into the pattern. With a light card wad on top,it may keep the shot from embedding in the said fibre wad.So my load would be : powder,over powder wad,fiberwad,over shot wad,shot,over shot wad. One extra card wad. Just a theory, but would like to pattern it...soon. Maybe others have tried it,dunno.

If you must use a felt wad you need a 1/8th solid card wad top and bottom of your felt wad for a better pattern ,has I have said a felt wad is not needed.
Feltwad

[Vomitus]

   Thanks Feltwad, will give both a try. I'm awaiting a 20 gauge SxS. Seems a lot of guys have different views on what works for them. Experimenting is fun! Cheers!