offset pipe(s) or bowed ramrod?

[WadePatton]

or something else for rr retention.  I see an offset indicated in the plans cross-section in Recreating the American Longrifle, but no text to support it.  I though i had read something on here about offsetting a pipe enough to keep the rr from jumping out in recoil, but couldn't find it in my searches last night.

Did find guys talking about intentional warping of the rr for extra friction.

what say ye? 

[Chris Treichel]

The plans I have for a Jaeger rifle show a little lever behind the thimble inside the ram rod hole that is a retention spring. 

[Don Getz]

Wow, you have touched on two things that are not usually a problem.  First, it is somewhat difficult to finda "straight"
ramrod, and you can't buy a 3/8" ramrod that will fit without sanding or scraping it to fit.........Don

[KentSmith]

Just not something to worry about as I can see.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I buy oversized blanks and taper them to fit the rifle.  As Don said, it's rare to find one so straight that it shoots out of the pipes upon recoil.  There is always a fine line between making them too loose or too tight, but it's part of the thrill of the build.
I just made two for Leatherbelly.  For his .54 cal. I started with a 1/2" rod and scraped it to 5/16" at the inside tip - .300" actually, as that was the size of the hole at the small end.  For his squirrel rifle in .40 cal. I started with a 7/16" blank and reduced all but the last five inches to 5/16".  The tip on this one is also .300".  It's time consuming, but Acer's rod scraper is a blessing.

[Chris Treichel]

I think the ramrod retention spring was supposed to be for a metal ram rod. I have never had a ramrod budge when shooting... I have had plenty get stuck after a humid weekend or rainy day.

[Jerry V Lape]

My one ramrod pops out about an inch when the rifle is fired.  I think that is a handy feature as it is conveniently presented for reloading. 

[David Rase]

Wade,
Here is how I make my ramrods.  Get yourself a "straight" grained hickory board 1/2 or 3/4" thick.  The "straight" grain will still have minor bends and curves to it.  Take a pencil, find a grain line next to the edge of the board and draw down the grain line from end to end.  Draw a second line a distance away from the first line that will give you a square blank once cut out.  Take your board and run it through a band saw making sure you follow the wavy pencil lines.  Start scraping the ramrod down to size.  You can use a block plane or a spokeshave to remove the square corners.  Continue scraping using either a tool like the one in the book you referenced or one of Acer's scrapers.  The scraper will continue to follow the grain of the blank.  If you did the previous steps correct, your tools will have followed the grain and when you are finished your ramrod will have enough bends and crooks in it to keep sufficient tension between it and the ramrod hole as well as the ramrod and the pipes.  I have been using this technique for years and the results are a crooked ramrod that has no grain run out due to following the natural grain of the wood.  It also has enough spring in it to stay tensioned yet not swell up in damp weather and get stuck.  Fortunately, I live in the Pacific Northwest and do not have to worry about damp weather.
David 

[WadePatton]

Wow, you have touched on two things that are not usually a problem.  First, it is somewhat difficult to finda "straight"
ramrod, and you can't buy a 3/8" ramrod that will fit without sanding or scraping it to fit.........Don

Tippy musta sold me the onliest straight 3/8 piece o hickory around then.   it's pds.  and it fits the pipes he sold me and the groove/hole John made. ? it's not 'apposed to?

I plan on doing some splitting and scraping eventually, but will go with the store-bought stick to get going.  (plus of course i've made a steel range rod).

OH and also-the offset centers in the Recreating book is for the mandrel for forming the skirted type of entry pipe.

But i swear i saw some discussion sommers 'bout not having the pipes line up dead straight.  thought it was here (last year or before), but mebbe not.  And i don't want my gun looking any crookeder* than it shall. 

*i can't believe the "spelling nag" deedn't flag that word. 

carry on.

[Dave B]

I know that I have seen the use of a universal jointed drill that allows one to drill the ramrod hole off set to the side plate section  so the ffront trigger guard lugg is missed by the ramrod giving the ramrod an extra inch or two depending on how far you drill that off set hole. This will bind the ramrod from sliding out under recoiil or while the rifle is carried in a sling.  I learned this from Jack Rouse in  Watertown KY.  He had a jig set up for his router to rout out a section of the barrel inlet down to the level of the ramrod hole. The hole would only be drilled to a point 8" from the breach. The router cut a chanel that was angled just enough to let the ujniversal jointed drill the off set to make the new alignment possible. He had another router jig that would cut a plug that he would epoxy in to the diagonal hole then rout the plug to match the barrel profile. It was really sweet how he had it all set up.

[snowdragon]

Here's a few tricks to try, the first one worked for me with a loose ramrod.  Swab the ramrod hole with some Watco oil. Use a cleaning rod with a patch. Swab a little oil in there and wait about a day to see if it's too tight, too loose, or just right.  It's best to have the fit a little tight, as it will burnish smooth with use. If still too loose, do it again. If still too loose, try soaking that part of the ramrod with the oil. Wrap an oil soaked rag around the part of the rod that goes in the hole or just stick the end in a can of Watco.  Wipe off the rod and let it dry a day or so then check for fit. And again, you want it a tad tight.

If the oil trick doesn't work, then it's time to move on to "crookifying " the rod. Easily done with a hairdryer or heat gun. Put the heat on the side of the rod that bends the most (outside of the arc), then bend over your knee and hold for a few seconds. check the fit and keep repeating the process until you get a tight fit and the ramrod enters the entry pipe without hanging up. You can even bend a slight "jog" in the rod if you're tricky enough. It doesn't take much. Good luck. Bill

[WadePatton]

I know that I have seen the use of a universal jointed drill that allows one to drill the ramrod hole off set ... It was really sweet how he had it all set up.

posts like that make this place worth twice the price of admission. 

also i checked my stick on the surface plate (yeah i know overkill but the only clear span of flat steel at present mid-build point (every other surface is littered with wood chips and tools)) it's dead straight in the middle 40 inches, but kicks out at each end-probably plenty for retentiveness.  That and i know i'm going to make some of my own-which will likely be somewhat lumpy. 

[David Rase]

Okay, I'll bite, what is a universal jointed drill?  

If I had the desire, and I don't, to off set the ramrod, here is what I would do.  After I cut my ramrod channel to where it enters the lower forestock I would put the stock in a fixture and bend the lower forestock.  I would hold it in that position while in the fixture and then drill the ramrod hole.  
David

[WadePatton]

"joint" not "point"  as in U-Joint i suppose.  allows drill to drill crooked holes eh? 

Okay, I'll bite, what is a universal pointed drill? 

If I had the desire, and I don't, to off set the ramrod, here is what I would do.  After I cut my ramrod channel to where it enters the lower forestock I would put the stock in a fixture and bend the lower forestock.  I would hold it in that position while in the fixture and then drill the ramrod hole. 
David

[Jim Kibler]

This thread doesn't make too much sense to me.  Make a rod sized such that it stays put and the problem is solved.

[Long Ears]

Thanks Jim, I couldn't figure it out and thought it was just me. Bob

[rich pierce]

Never had a rod come loose.

[Dave B]

David, I like your  idea of bending the stock to allow for the offset of the hole while finish drilling. That is a slick way to do it.  The thing I like about the off set hole is not just the fact that the rod is tensioned but that it gives you more ramrod to work with at the muzzle end of the gun when you put a ball down with out power and need to use the ramrod lever tool to pull the bullet or stuck cleaning jag.

[Bernard]

I was instructed to make my ram rods with a larger top end that engages the pipe at the muzzle snugly. This retains the rod and if done properly will not jam even in wet weather. I've used a rod for 10 years in all weather and never had any swelling problems. Just fit the top end to your pipe. Problem solved.

[Micah2]

I am way behind on ramrod scraping tools and techniques.  That being said, my lazy method is to double or triple fold an 80 grit sanding belt in a bench vise and create an appropriate sized sleeve in which to start sanding through.  I mount the hickory dowel in a 1/2 in drill chuck and proceed to "ream" the rod through the sleeve in and out until there is no friction.  Then I tighten the vise ever so slightly and repeat until the appropriate size is achieved.  My forward lock bolt is a little high which means the entry tip must be at around 5/16.  I achieve a nice tulip taper with this method as I can control the taper with the length of pull through the sleeve.  I leave it oversized so that I can scrape the last bit with my knife and get rid of spiraled marks.
Takes about ten minutes.  I also wear a glove on my free hand to stabilize the rod as it turns.  Poor boy lathe, lazy boy rod tool.  This tapered rod can be easily fine tuned to provide friction both in the pipes and against the entry to prevent slippage in the field or during carry