Another stupid ramrod question

[James]

I just finished shaping a rod from a split, I put the tip on the small end to be in the forestock. The muzzle end is flared. I was under the assumption that the flared end was where my hand goes and the brass tip end was the end used to contact the PRB for ramming. I interpret a recently reprinted book to suggest the flared wood part is what should contact the ball, and the brass tip end is just for jags. Help this confused idiot please. I'm new, but don't want to be doing things wrong. Thank you, Jim

[ottawa]

what the book says is the way I thought it went look at some that are tulip shape the big end is for the ball the narrow end is to hold and for jags.
just my input

[SCLoyalist]

I don't think it's possible to do it 'wrong' unless you've created a rod that gets jammed in the forestock or is tapered  too thin and breaks or chips when trying to ram a ball.

Getting the ball down the first 12" is where I think most folks have to push the hardest on the rod, with their hand just a few inches above the muzzle.  Seems logical to use the thickest and strongest part of the rod for that.    

I have a 36 cal rifle;  the rod has a brass threaded tip on the end that goes into the stock and the end under the muzzle has carved ridges to catch tow or a cleaning patch.  I use the brass tipped end to make contact with the ball to reduce risk of damage to the ridges.  That rod has almost no taper to it.

I have a .40 cal made way back when by Bob Watts. It came with what appeared to be the original ramrod with a pronounced ramrod taper (.320" down to .260").   The narrow end has ridges for tow/cleaning patch and goes into the forestock.   The larger end has an unthreaded brass tip that pushes the ball down.

 

[David Rase]

I used to be one of those guys who pulled out my ramrod, flipped it over, drove in the patched ball, flipped my ramrod back over and put it back in the gun.  Now I pull the ramrod out of the gun, ram the ball down the barrel with the breech end of the ramrod and then smoothly place the ramrod back in the barrel.  I do not flip the ramrod any longer.  I believe traditionally it would of taken too much time to flip the ramrod every time you load as well as needing more open space to flip the ramrod.  I also think most original rammers were not trumpeted, that is a contemporary feature.  That belief brought me to believe that the original shooters of these guns would not go through the extra motions to flip a ramrod end to end.
David
With that said, I used to carry a small red Snap-On dead blow hammer in my shooting box to seat my round balls back when I was paper punching with my Ron Long built Ken Bresin underhammer.   That was a long long long time ago.

[James Rogers]

James,
I will try to add a little to Dave's comments and theory on rifle sticks, and you do not specify the type of firearm. There is plenty of historical evidence in documentation and existing remnants to show that fowling guns, smooth pistols and other smooth guns had ramrods done with the trumpet end at the muzzle and the tool end inside the channel. This would incorporate the historical precedent for flipping the rod over to ram down.  That said, there is no evidence to show that PRB was used as the norm in a smooth gun.

[James]

Dave, that's what I was doing, flipping it. There is no economy of motion there and thus just doesn't feel right to me. James, I am just referring to my rifle, I don't yet have experience with smooth guns. I know, I need to get out more.   

[James Wilson Everett]

James,

Your question is not stupid at all, actually it is a good one!  I believe that it is rather rare to find an American M/L long gun with the original ramrod.  I seem to remember that the few original ones I have seen do have t swelling/trumpet end at the muzzle and a much thinner threaded end back in the stock.  Actually, I would not be surprised if many of the long guns we study have gone through multiple ramrods in their long lives.  It is very common to see nice European pistols with their original rammers (these things really did not see a great amount of use), again these seem to have an unthreaded trumpet end with a thinner, tapered thresaded end in the stock.

Jim

[Vomitus]

  I use mine exactly like Dave Rase.All my rods are tapered. To save breakage, I ram with short increments. Haven't broke one...yet!

[rsells]

I have photographs of an original rifle that has a long metal tip on the end of the ramrod that goes down in the stock.  The metal end is tapered down to a small diameter.  I couldn't see if it was drilled and threaded for a cleaning jag or not, but I think it was not the end used to push the ball down the bore.  The end of the rod is larger diameter (rod is tapered from the back to the muzzle end) on the muzzle end with a brass tip that is nothing more than a tube open on both ends mounted on the end of the rod.  In this instance, I think the rod was removed and flipped to push the ball down the bore with the large end of the rod. 

I have three mountain rifles that I use to copy certain characteristics from each when I build a mountain rifle.  Two of them have some type of cleaning fixture carved in the end of the rod.  When I got the rifles, these ends were on the muzzle end of the rifle, and I have not flipped them and tried to push the rod down the ramrod hole with the carved end down.  I guess these could have been installed either way.  The third is a replacement rod for sure and has nothing on each end and is straight.  No way to know the history of any of these.
                                                           Roger Sells

   

[Vomitus]

  Loading as David does,it's quick to get your next shot off.No flipping the rod end for end using the tapered end down on the ball. I like the appearance and function of a tapered rod. It fills the gap at the muzzle so you don't snag and broom it off whilst in the thick woods.JMHO

[Dphariss]

I just finished shaping a rod from a split, I put the tip on the small end to be in the forestock. The muzzle end is flared. I was under the assumption that the flared end was where my hand goes and the brass tip end was the end used to contact the PRB for ramming. I interpret a recently reprinted book to suggest the flared wood part is what should contact the ball, and the brass tip end is just for jags. Help this confused idiot please. I'm new, but don't want to be doing things wrong. Thank you, Jim

You will find all kinds of stuff some even makes sense.
I use the small end with the jag on the ball, thats why the brass tip has a cup.

Dan

[rich pierce]

It's pretty unambiguous that for shotguns, fowling pieces and muskets, there was a lot of rammer flipping going on.  In some cases, while the oth er guy was shooting at ya.   

Whether true for rifles, another question.

[HardBall]

My father has an old percussion pistol that he bought in Germany around 1970 to use as a wall hangar.  It's in fantastic condition but I don't know if it's ramrod is original.   It's slender and tapered towards the breech end with a flared tip of what looks like ivory near the muzzle end.  The tapered end is too slender with a somewhat rounded end- it could not have been used for ramming.

Out of habit I've always flipped the ramrod but I have recently thought it quicker to not flip and intend to change my habit.   Don't know why I never thought of it before.

[sweed]

 Loading as David does,it's quick to get your next shot off.No flipping the rod end for end using the tapered end down on the ball. I like the appearance and function of a tapered rod. It fills the gap at the muzzle so you don't snag and broom it off whilst in the thick woods.JMHO

That bell on the end also gives big cold fingers some purchase on the rod to get it out in the first place!

[draken]

I originally flipped the loading rod, but then one day it slipped out my grip and went saling.   It's hard to find a brown stained stick laying in the leaves.   From that point on, it has been staight out and straight back in.   Less movement in the woods, too.

[Roger Fisher]

A little odd that no one has mentioned here that another reason for the tapered rod end in the stock is to clear that front lock 'nail'.   Since the majority of my shooting is at 'line' shoots (not forgetting the w walks etc). I'm usually carting a steel loading rod around and for that reason I'm flipping the rod around and am prone to knock some unwary co shooter in the noggin.    I think old age protects me somewhat from retaliation.