Author Topic: Show us your big bore rifles  (Read 28886 times)

Offline James

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Re: Show us your big bore rifles
« Reply #50 on: November 06, 2012, 07:11:56 PM »
Thank you Dennis.    Jim
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun." P.Henry

Offline bigsmoke

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Re: Show us your big bore rifles
« Reply #51 on: November 07, 2012, 01:46:08 AM »
The interesting thing about gauge/bore is that as the size of the bore increases, the gauge becomes a little less distinct.

As a case in point, Turner Kirkland acquired a "4 bore" double rifle from a deal he made in London.  This beautiful double rifle was the subject of an article printed in the first Lyman Black Powder Book in 1976.  If you can find it, it is a good read.  However, his "4 bore" was actually about a 6 bore, or .89 caliber.  Since a true 4 bore is more like 1.05 caliber, you can see the problem there.

The 4 bore barrels I used to get from Joe Williams at the Gun Works shot a .980 ball pretty good.  But that would be slightly undersize for a true 4 bore.  I used that and a pre-lubed 2 1/4" T/C cleaning patch on top of a lubed cushion wad cut from a piece of black construction board.  Just right.  IIRC, the ball weighed about 1,450 grains.

I find the world of big bore muzzleloaders so terribly fascinating!

John

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Show us your big bore rifles
« Reply #52 on: November 07, 2012, 01:54:03 AM »
I saw Turner Kirkland's 6 bore double when I worked at Dixie Gun Works in the summer of 1958
and it was some piece. One hot night,we got the 1927 Pierce-Arrow roadster out of the museum
and took the 6 bore and a 10 bore double rifles out and shot wild dogs by using the Pierce's post mounted
spotlight that stood on the driver's side running board/. I remember standing with my right foot on the running
board and using the windshield frame for a rest for the 10 bore and turning several mutts tail up in the weeds.
I wish now I had bought that 10 bore but then if wishes were horses,beggars would ride.

Bob Roller

Offline bigsmoke

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Re: Show us your big bore rifles
« Reply #53 on: November 07, 2012, 02:03:38 AM »
 I think that hardened balls was the reason that Baker preferred the 6 guage over the 4 guage which I assume he shot with soft cast minis of some kind. 

In Wild Beasts and their Ways, Baker said:  "I have seen in a life's experience the extraordinary vagaries of rilfe bullets.. there is nothing, in my opinion, superior to the old spherical hardened bullet with a heavy charge of powder...

So, possibly he was not shooting soft cast minis.  Also, I don't recall his mentioning anything about 6 bore guns, but could be.  After the advent of breach loaders, he did seem to favor the .577, from what I recall.
John

doug

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Re: Show us your big bore rifles
« Reply #54 on: November 07, 2012, 08:12:27 PM »

So, possibly he was not shooting soft cast minis.  Also, I don't recall his mentioning anything about 6 bore guns, but could be.  

    the book I was referring to was Rifle and Hound in Ceylon.  In it he seemed to prefer I am pretty sure it was an 8 guage to a 6 guage for shooting elephants and water buffalo.   I remember being surprised because he felt that the smaller gun was more effective.  I don't recall him saying what his lead mixture was but do remember posting on another forum, that I wondered why and the consensus was that he used hardened balls in the smaller gun vs softer elongate bullets, presumably minis, in his heavier gun.  I also recall an article years ago by I think it was Val Fogett of Navy Arms, shooting an african elephant with a heavy guage muzzle loading rifle and getting relatively little penetration with it (only 2 or 3 feet).  The speculation was that he was not using hardened balls

cheers Doug

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Show us your big bore rifles
« Reply #55 on: November 08, 2012, 04:45:30 AM »
 I think that hardened balls was the reason that Baker preferred the 6 guage over the 4 guage which I assume he shot with soft cast minis of some kind. 

In Wild Beasts and their Ways, Baker said:  "I have seen in a life's experience the extraordinary vagaries of rilfe bullets.. there is nothing, in my opinion, superior to the old spherical hardened bullet with a heavy charge of powder...

So, possibly he was not shooting soft cast minis.  Also, I don't recall his mentioning anything about 6 bore guns, but could be.  After the advent of breach loaders, he did seem to favor the .577, from what I recall.
John


The 577 was the 577  2 3/4 BPE and 577 3" BPE cartridge rifles which he was instrumental in developing.
He also used a 10 bore cartridge rifle. The 577 used PP bullets either solid lead or HP for penetration they hardened them. The 10 bore shot hardened bullets too but I doubt they were significantly heavier than a 10 bore RB.

In MLs he preferred the RB having gotten into "scrapes" with African Elephant when he had a conical mould made for his two groove "stopping rifle". With the normal ball (probably belted) it never failed to "floor a charging elephant". With the conical it was useless for this.

I have a 577 2 3/4" "solid" bullet used in a friends Westley Richards double. Might be a photo on the computer someplace....

They did not have a high sectional density being "Express Bullets" and BP will not produce high velocity with bullets that are 3 calibers long like the LR bullets for 44-45 calibers.

Went out and took a photo.
This is a 560 gr 577 2 3/4" BPE bullet and a copy of the Gov't 45 cal 405 gr. The HP 577 was cast in the same mould by using a plug  to form the hollow.



The 405 gr is a medium length bullet for the 45-70.
Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline varsity07840

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Re: Show us your big bore rifles
« Reply #56 on: November 18, 2012, 06:29:34 PM »
If someone can tell how to post pictures I'll post some of these;

.69 cal pistol grip half stock percussion plains rifle -original

16 bore Westley Richards percussion half stock stalking rifle original

1816 .69 cal smoothbore flint restored original

1816 .69 cal flint rifled barrel-"hybrid" built on original hardware and stock, reconverted lock, Whitacre 3 groove barrel

1842 .69 cal rifled musket-original

1842 .69 cal rifled musket cut to carbine length. No idea when it was cut down.

.72 cal fullstock flint, Forsyth rifling, Moody barrel.

Duane




Offline PPatch

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Re: Show us your big bore rifles
« Reply #57 on: November 18, 2012, 11:13:43 PM »
Duane;

In the ALR Tutorial section, second item, you will find this picture posting tutorial, here is a direct link:

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=10.0

Dave
Dave Parks   /   Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Offline Bull Shannon

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Re: Show us your big bore rifles
« Reply #58 on: November 19, 2012, 07:33:40 AM »
Bull,  I did provide a few more details about a third of the way down on the first page of this string. If you want something more specific let me know. Thank you!!
Robby
I found it, Dunlop sold you a pretty piece of wood and I like the checkering especially.  I've got an L&R caplock on my .54 plains rifle, also on the "correct" side and I'm pretty pleased with it.
You can't kill a man who is born to hang!

Offline t.caster

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Re: Show us your big bore rifles
« Reply #59 on: November 20, 2012, 08:47:37 PM »
All this talk about 4 bores and 6 bores, I guess I'll have to post my little .62 Jaeger in the squirrel rifle thread.
Tom C.

Offline bigsmoke

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Re: Show us your big bore rifles
« Reply #60 on: November 21, 2012, 03:36:50 AM »
Tom,
In my view, anything over .60 caliber is a big bore.  Bring it on, I like Jaegers.  Those are big bores that were meant to be shot comfortably.
John

Offline SCLoyalist

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Re: Show us your big bore rifles
« Reply #61 on: November 23, 2012, 06:01:53 PM »


Caywood English Game gun, rifled barrel,  cal .62,  with its first deer.   It has the sparkingest lock of any flinter I've ever owned, but I have to admit that the gun's external coning took me some time to adjust my priming technique to get  reliable ignition.

I was hunting with 3 others, each of whom was equipped with a modern inline.   Our host who organized the hunt was tickled to death that I was hunting with a traditionally styled gun, and got really gushy when it brought down a deer.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2012, 06:06:51 PM by SCLoyalist »

Offline bigsmoke

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Re: Show us your big bore rifles
« Reply #62 on: November 24, 2012, 01:03:08 AM »
 ;D  Fantastic.  Sure is a pretty ol' gun.  That venison don't look too bad either.

dagner

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Re: Show us your big bore rifles
« Reply #63 on: November 26, 2012, 11:18:48 AM »
 come on guys .more of your big guns and stories  some real fine looking big bores
dag

Offline t.caster

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Re: Show us your big bore rifles
« Reply #64 on: November 26, 2012, 08:40:20 PM »
OK, here it is with a little buck I nailed in 2008. I just dropped a big old doe with it yesterday! Best deer slayer I ever owned. It had been loaded for ten days and went off just as quickly as a fresh load! But that is normal for this rifle.
It is a Military style (Thomas Pistor) Jaeger .62 cal x 30" x 1 1/6" straight oct. Getz custom barrel, 1-66 twist. Davis Jaeger flintlock and dbl.set triggers. Weighs in at 12 lbs. so it can absorb the recoil just fine.

Tom C.