Tool for inletting remrod pipes

[draken]

I wponder if I could get some input regarding your preferred tools for inletting ramrod thimbles?

Thank you very much in advance.

[mjm46@bellsouth.net]

I use a small half round gouge and another curved gouge. No magic, just persistance.

[James Wilson Everett]

Guys,

I use a 3/32 mortise chisel to cut the slot for the thimble tab, I cut the slot all the way through to the barrel channel.  Next, I insert the thimble tab into the mortice slot and scribe the ends of the inlet with a 1/4 inch straight chisel.  I remove the thimble from the mortice slot and stab in the scribed line with the same chisel.  The wood is removed from the inlet with a palm handel U-gouge.  Usually this is done with only one cycle of candle blacking the thimble to clean up the inlet.

Jim

[Acer Saccharum]

Jim, I send my wood and barrels to Dave Rase for inletting the barrel and rr channel.

I am going to send my stock and thimbles to YOU to inlet them. 

It takes me about three days to inlet a thimble, and about five for the entry pipe. Not really, but a lot longer than most folks take.

[Jim Kibler]

I'm with you Jim on the mortice chisel.  It wasn't until recently I started to use one for cutting thimble slots, trigger slots etc. and have found them to work well.  If anyone is interested, do a search and you'll find how they are typically used.  I recall seeing an episode of the Woodwright's Shop not too long ago where he went into pretty good detail regarding mortice chisels.  Think you can find it online.  I had a discussion with Wallace a while back where he mention that he used one to cut the key slots on some guns and found it to work out well.  A little scary, but worked.

[Dennis Glazener]

I made a couple of little mortise chisels out of 3/32" music wire. Grind slow and cool often in water and you don't lose the hardness.

I mark the slots by using black marker on the bottoms of the thimble tab, then setting the barrel in the channel and press down. I cut the sides with a 1/4 straight chisel then do the ends with the 3/32' music wire chisels. Then work from the middle to the ends to remove the rest.

For the thimbles, I use a 1/4 flat chisel. I mark the length with a knife (cut as deep as the thimble metal is thick) then use a sharp 1/4 chisel to "peel" the inside down to the depth of the thimble metal thickness. Note that most of my thimbles are straight sided.
Dennis

[Tim Crosby]

 Hope Al doesn't mind.

   http://www.hootalrifleshop.org/thimbles.htm

   Tim C.

[rich pierce]

I made a tool for one step stabbing in the ends of the ramrod thimble inlets.  It's a straight chisel which has a lollipop end of the correct radius.  Just stab it straight in then use a gouge to scoop out the trough.

[Jerry V Lape]

Somewhere on this board there is a tutorial using a custom made burr.  The burr was formed to match the outline of the thimbles which the person always used.  The position was marked, the burr was fastened to a long drill rod, held down with a wood clamp and turned to grind out a perfectly matching profile for his thimbles.  I thought the differences in approaches were interesting.  The effort to make up the burr and create the female mold for a consistent thimble shape to match would be a significant time and labor investment in tool making - but probably great for someone trying to produce many guns with lower labor costs in the end. 

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I made my mortising chisel from a file, to cut the slots for the tabs, which go all the way through the web to the barrel.  I made a chisel with a radius just a little smaller than 3/8" to cut straight in at the ends of the pipes, and take out the wood between with a 1/4" gouge and a 1/4" flat chisel, but I have a very gentle radius on the flat chisel so that it peels the wood more controlably from the inlet.

[Chris Treichel]

If you make your own thimbles just make the bottom part of them completely round and the top decorated so that the decoration stops where it enters the stock... that way you only have to inlet a completely smooth object and not one with all those bumps and stuff.  Looks like that was how it was done back in the day.  Why spend time filing in stuff where it won't show anyway. 

[Jim Kibler]

A good method is to inlet before filing the flats.  After inlet, scribe where the edge of the wood comes to on the pipe and then file flats above this line.

[rich pierce]

learned something there, thanks Chris and Jim.

[Robby]

Some timely advice there!!! Thanks Jim and Chris! My next pipes are going to about three inches long, oy!

[Tim Crosby]

Somewhere on this board there is a tutorial using a custom made burr.  The burr was formed to match the outline of the thimbles which the person always used.  The position was marked, the burr was fastened to a long drill rod, held down with a wood clamp and turned to grind out a perfectly matching profile for his thimbles.  I thought the differences in approaches were interesting.  The effort to make up the burr and create the female mold for a consistent thimble shape to match would be a significant time and labor investment in tool making - but probably great for someone trying to produce many guns with lower labor costs in the end. 

  This one?

     http://americanlongrifles.org/old_board/index.php?topic=58.0


  Tim C.

[Mark Elliott]

A good method is to inlet before filing the flats.  After inlet, scribe where the edge of the wood comes to on the pipe and then file flats above this line.

Jim,  Do you only file the top three flats?   I know some gun makers did that but not all.   If you file the side flats,  how do you manage that only starting half way up?

Mark

For the record,  I use a 3/32" morticing chisel and a 1/4" bench chisel for most of the work.   I may also use a  1/8"  #8 gouge.   The morticing chisel and gouge are antiques.  I bought the 3/32" and an 1/8" morticing chisel were purchased from the tool guy at the Emmittsburg Antique Mall.   I always stop there when I am passing through.   I have bought a lot of tools from him.   He also makes the rounds of the antique shows  in MD and VA.   

[Jim Kibler]

I file five flats on the pipes I make.  The groove depth is generally about one third the diameter of the rod.  I simply inlet the pipes, scribe where the edge of the wood is and then split the distance up into five equal flats.  The side flats might not end up perfectly vertical, but they are pretty close and either way, it doesn't make any difference.  Looks good in the end.

[Lucky R A]

     I use a slightly different approach.  Determine your pipe locations. Place your pipe upside down in the ramrod grove and mark the front back and sides.  I cut the front and back lines with a bull nose chisel stabbing in at the upper edge of of each end cut. I then just sort of roll the bull nose chisel around the end lines to cut the stops. I then take a 1/2 straight chisel and peal out the wood to the thickness of pipe material. You can then check the fit by using the tab as a handle and set the pipe into the inlet.  When the pipe fits well I then drill a 1/8 hole at each end of the inlet dead center in the bottom of the grove. Now take your 1/2 chisel and push straight down and cut out the slot connecting the two holes at each end of the inlet--Done.

[billd]

I've been waiting for someone else to ask this question but it looks like it's not going to happen.  What's the difference between a mortise chisel and a bench chisel?  Can someone post a picture of each?

Bill

[JDK]

I've been waiting for someone else to ask this question but it looks like it's not going to happen.  What's the difference between a mortise chisel and a bench chisel?  Can someone post a picture of each?

Bill

Mortise chisels are traditionally used to cut mortises so have parallel flat sides and are generally thicker than wide....as opposed to bench chisels which have beveled sides and generally all the chisels in a set are the same thickness.

Enjoy, J.D.

[Acer Saccharum]

Easiest is to google image mortice chisel.

[rich pierce]

Easy to make from an old file, I'd think, for those who like to make their own.  Would need a ferruled handle for the stick tang.  A socket one like this would be the real ticket.

[Roger Fisher]

     I use a slightly different approach.  Determine your pipe locations. Place your pipe upside down in the ramrod grove and mark the front back and sides.  I cut the front and back lines with a bull nose chisel stabbing in at the upper edge of of each end cut. I then just sort of roll the bull nose chisel around the end lines to cut the stops. I then take a 1/2 straight chisel and peal out the wood to the thickness of pipe material. You can then check the fit by using the tab as a handle and set the pipe into the inlet.  When the pipe fits well I then drill a 1/8 hole at each end of the inlet dead center in the bottom of the grove. Now take your 1/2 chisel and push straight down and cut out the slot connecting the two holes at each end of the inlet--Done.

Good advice: Of course some of us have to nutz around doing this little project so it takes 3 times as long or more than some guys.  Then again, some ol guys need something to do to stay out of trouble.

[Dogshirt]

Staying out of trouble isn't any fun!