Author Topic: Tune and polish a lock (Read 7979 times)

magyar · « **on:** November 19, 2012, 06:00:00 PM »

Morning all, I have a Chambers lock that came in a TOW kit. i had someone just tell me it would need to be "tuned" as it is not done in the Chamber shop. Is this the case? If so, i would like to have it done before starting on the polishing. I did have a Cochran tuned by a guy a few years back and never realized the importance of it until then. After 10 years of shooting the gun, i was amazed at the speed of the lock and the sparks. I did not know what i was missing. But I personally have no idea how to go about doing this myself. And, now with a lot of work-related travel coming up, not sure i even have the time or patience to polish this lock with 16-month old and 2-week old boys in the house now

So my question...is there anyone out there who can/would take on this job? Tuning and polishing armory bright? What would be an idea of cost?

Dont make fun of me, I am new at this! If tuning is a fairly easy thing to do with minimum of metal working experience, I am all ears for a tutorial. My problem I think is just going to be time at this point.

Appreciate your help!

rich pierce · « **Reply #1 on:** November 19, 2012, 07:01:31 PM »

Hi, the lock will work just fine as it comes from Chambers. It will not need tuning 99 or more percent of the time, but if something is a problem call Barbie at Chambers and they will make it right. Many of us are persnickety types and love to polish gun parts. Just looking at polished internals makes us happy and convinces us that the lock will work "better".

Some other locks may require tuning more often, and going back 30 or 40 years there were some bad ones out there that needed tuning just to function.

Back to your question, most lock tuners would ask "why?" if you asked them to tune a Chamber lock.

bama · « **Reply #2 on:** November 19, 2012, 07:14:27 PM »

I agree 100% with Rich. You will not need to do mcuh if anything to a Chambers lock. Jim's locks are hands down the best lock out there unless you are going with a custom lock. Build on and do not worry about tuning. If you do have any concerns contact Barbie or Jim, they are great people and will do all they can to help.

Mark Elliott · « **Reply #3 on:** November 19, 2012, 10:27:53 PM »

It is true that Chambers locks are the best available and usually work well as received, but my experience is that most of them do need work on the sear, fly and full cock notch. At the very least, they need to be polished. The sear tip is going to need to be shaped and polished for the type of trigger you are using. The sear bar may need to be adjusted for the trigger(s) you are using an how they are mounted relative to the lock. Of course, the lock plate, cock, and flizzen need to be finish filed and polished. I almost forgot, I also polish the bearing surfaces of the tumbler. This is not normally done on assembly. I spend at lease 8 hours working on a Chambers lock making minor improvements. An L&R lock will take longer and never be as good as the Chambers. There isn't much you can do if the screw holes were not drilled right or the tumbler hole not reamed correctly which is common on the L&R locks. An L&R lock I have now has a warped lock plate that I am going to have to straighten at the forge. They are a mess!

490roundball · « **Reply #4 on:** November 19, 2012, 10:52:06 PM »

I would agree with Mark here, I take a lock apart and polish all the bearing surfaces and flatten the inside of the lockplate. I have fired a Chambers lock without doing it and it works fine, but - my imagination or not, it seems to be a little better polished.

As for L&R - I have used one and it absolutly needed tuning, it would not fire reliably without it. Keith Casteel was kind enough to sit down at Dixons once and show me what needed to be done with it. And it was more than polishing. With all that done its a good lock.

Dr. Tim-Boone · « **Reply #5 on:** November 19, 2012, 11:00:11 PM »

It is possible that the lock was made from a Chambers kit by someone other than Chamber's organization, for TOTW. If that is so it might .....might .....need tuning....but there are several people out there that build Chambers locks and sell nicely finished ones... So the thing is to polish it up and test it.... If you are going to rust brown the lock you can just file the mold marks off and leave the rest as received for browning.... IT does not need to be mirror bright unless you want it to be....... Look carefully at the insides to see that springs and things are mot rubbing against the plate...

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #6 on:** November 19, 2012, 11:23:21 PM »

I always tune the locks, no matter who makes them. Sear, tumbler notches, sliding surface of tumbler, tip of mainspring, on and on. Sometimes a new sear screw needs to be fitted.

It's the tweaks that take a good lock to a really good one. Once in a while you get a great one.

I have a little Bailes lock, which I think is L&R, and @!*%, she's fast, and a good sparker.

heinz · « **Reply #7 on:** November 19, 2012, 11:50:52 PM »

In my last 3 projects I have used 3 locks, A Davis Continental style, A Chmbers large English and a Bob Roller Twigg.
The Davis took a lot of polishing, relieving spring drag, tuning the sear, and tempering the frizzen. The Chamber just a bit of polishing and it sparks like a house fire. The little Twigg by Bob Roller I took one look at and knew Bob was a world better than me at building a lock. That little Twigg throws as many spark as the big English Chambers.
Just my experience, your mileage may differ.

WadePatton · « **Reply #8 on:** November 20, 2012, 12:01:16 AM »

whatever you do, don't tell the lock "maker*" you "cleaned up**" his lock. i got the evil stink eye over that once.

*he has custom castings made and may or may not assemble them. and it's not camming over properly yet...it will.

**polishing mating surfaces is simply something i'll always do-as i always have on those late-model arms and other intricate machinations.

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #9 on:** November 20, 2012, 12:30:39 AM »

For the money, the better production locks are a very good value. They nearly always can benefit from tuning, however. Sometimes it's minor, sometimes it's more involved depending on how well it was put together. Yes this varies considerably. It's not uncommon for me to spend a day working on a lock, fixing any issues and tuning it up. After building locks from barstock, this is a small sacrifice.

2longhunt · « **Reply #10 on:** November 20, 2012, 12:43:01 AM »

Quote from: Mark Elliott on November 19, 2012, 10:27:53 PM

An L&R lock will take longer and never be as good as the Chambers. There isn't much you can do if the screw holes were not drilled right or the tumbler hole not reamed correctly which is common on the L&R locks. An L&R lock I have now has a warped lock plate that I am going to have to straighten at the forge. They are a mess!

I'm new here and so far am learning a lot visiting this forum. I've only built three rifles so far and am working on a fowler that I received in the white. But, I recently got a pistol that has an L & R Classic lock that matches one in a rifle I built. The one in my rifle is fast and works pretty well. I'm sure it could be better. The one in the pistol has the hammer setting cock-eyed. I suspect, as Mr. Elliott mentioned, its tumbler hole is not reamed correctly and it doesn't spark very well.

Since I've never tuned a lock, what tools should I use and is there a procedure or tutorial to do it? Do I use a very fine grit paper or steel wool?

Thanks for your help and helping a newbie.

Mark

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #11 on:** November 20, 2012, 12:50:43 AM »

In order to work on a lock, you need to first understand the characteristics of a well designed and constructed one. This isn't something learned overnight and certainly isn't something that can be conveyed in a forum such as this. I know this isn't very helpful. You already have mentioned one characteristic you are now familiar with though. The tunbler hole / tumbler fit. The bridle and hole can be thrown into this group as well. So to sum things up, the tunbler should have both axels precisely turned to size and be concentric with each other. The tumbler hole and bridle hole should be reamed to size such that there is just enough clearance for the tumbler to turn freely. Finally these two holes should be concentric with each other. There are a number of other characteristics constituting a quality lock as well. This is a start though.

rich pierce · « **Reply #12 on:** November 20, 2012, 12:51:22 AM »

It's quite possible for a newbie to make a lock unsafe by tuning if they mess at all with the tumbler notches or sear nose. I consider it specialized work at that point. If you simply work to eliminate springs and sear arm from scraping the lockplate as they travel and polish the contact surfaces of working parts (excepting the tumbler notches and sear nose) to 600 while keeping them square, and lube them the lock will have less friction.

2longhunt · « **Reply #13 on:** November 20, 2012, 01:03:24 AM »

Well, if a newbie can make it unsafe, I can probably do it. But, I won't know unless I try. All the contact areas (excepting the tumbler notches and sear nose) should be a safer place to start.

I assume though, that if a person was to hire someone to tune a lock, with what time Jim has spoken of that he sometimes puts into it (a day), it would cost more than purchasing a better quality lock that might only need minor tuning (a Chambers)?!

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #14 on:** November 20, 2012, 01:10:27 AM »

A Chambers lock can fall into that category of a day of re-work, tuning. I'll say it again though, I consider them to be a good product and an excellent value. All of this is not to say that a lock won't work straight from a manufacturer. The can certainly be made better, though. And with this said, I'm generally making relatively high end guns where every detail counts.

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #15 on:** November 20, 2012, 01:14:14 AM »

Any time you hire someone who, first: has the skill, second: has the time, and third: has the desire and tools, you can expect to have to pay for all of that. But there is no reason anyone who can sharpen a pencil cannot take a lock apart, and judiciously polish bearing surfaces. There is no better way to learn something than to try it yourself. Most of us did it that way. We had no tutors, tutorials, or internet. We saw the need, and took the leap.

So go ahead and give it a try. New replacement parts are available if worse comes to worse.

2longhunt · « **Reply #16 on:** November 20, 2012, 01:14:33 AM »

And I do admire your work Jim. Thanks for the help.

Mark

2longhunt · « **Reply #17 on:** November 20, 2012, 01:16:39 AM »

Quote from: D. Taylor Sapergia on November 20, 2012, 01:14:14 AM

So go ahead and give it a try. New replacement parts are available if worse comes to worse.

Yep. That's how I see things. Plus, I don't have the funds to do it any other way.

Dr. Tim-Boone · « **Reply #18 on:** November 20, 2012, 09:06:12 PM »

Here are aids from the tutorials. The first one is by Jim Chambers that describes what a quality lock is... A good place to start

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=6913.0

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=2585.0

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=21541.0

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=8986.0

Dphariss · « **Reply #19 on:** November 20, 2012, 10:42:54 PM »

Quote from: magyar on November 19, 2012, 06:00:00 PM

Morning all, I have a Chambers lock that came in a TOW kit. i had someone just tell me it would need to be "tuned" as it is not done in the Chamber shop. Is this the case? If so, i would like to have it done before starting on the polishing. I did have a Cochran tuned by a guy a few years back and never realized the importance of it until then. After 10 years of shooting the gun, i was amazed at the speed of the lock and the sparks. I did not know what i was missing. But I personally have no idea how to go about doing this myself. And, now with a lot of work-related travel coming up, not sure i even have the time or patience to polish this lock with 16-month old and 2-week old boys in the house now

So my question...is there anyone out there who can/would take on this job? Tuning and polishing armory bright? What would be an idea of cost?

Dont make fun of me, I am new at this! If tuning is a fairly easy thing to do with minimum of metal working experience, I am all ears for a tutorial. My problem I think is just going to be time at this point.

Appreciate your help!

Chances are all it needs is an exterior polish and casehardening the plate, pan, bridal and cock.
I would send it to Wyoming Armory in Cody WY. This will smooth and speed the lock by reducing friction.
It takes someone with knowledge to know what does and does not need to be done to tune a lock.

Dan

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #20 on:** November 20, 2012, 10:52:05 PM »

I guess my luck has been pathetic then.

Every lock I have used has needed significantly more attention than this for the performance I'm after. As for case hardening, I've done quite a number. I'm not convinced it does much or anything for speed on a modern cast steel lock. Larry Pletcher talked about testing this. I'll go on record and say that I don't think the results of such a test will show any statistical difference between the two conditions.

News:

Author Topic: Tune and polish a lock (Read 7979 times)

magyar

2longhunt

2longhunt

2longhunt

2longhunt