Author Topic: Whitening (sic?)  (Read 6261 times)

gunsports

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Whitening (sic?)
« on: November 23, 2012, 10:31:13 PM »
I see on an episode of American Guns the use of a product called 'Whitening': applied to a stock to draw out oil from the wood. What is this, does it work and where does one get the stuff?

Offline hortonstn

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Re: Whitening (sic?)
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2012, 10:36:47 PM »
i think whiteing is nothing more than chalk dust
i read that somewhere
paul

Offline Gaeckle

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Re: Whitening (sic?)
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2012, 11:02:43 PM »
Oven cleaner will leach out oils..........many use it to clean up old military stocks that have been soaking in cosmolene..........

Heat (from a heat gun) used cautiously will also draw oils out, be careful not to burn the wood..........

whetrock

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Re: Whitening (sic?)
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2012, 11:24:20 PM »

What kind of wood is it? before using oven cleaner, you might want to read the posts about staining cherry. . http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=23896.0

Offline davec2

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Re: Whitening (sic?)
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2012, 12:03:25 AM »
Gunsports,

"Whiting" is calcium carbonate.  Available from Brownells

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/stock-work-finishing/stock-finish-strippers/old-fashioned-whiting-prod1133.aspx#.UK_jlK71vyA

Mix it into a slurry with a solvent (I use acetone) and paint on the stock or oil soaked wood.  I also let it warm in the sun or hit it with a hair drier to add a little heat.  The white powder coat will dry and then turn darker as the oil is absorbed.  Military stocks may take a few treatments, if heavily oil soaked, but it does a great job.  For M-1 stocks, and the like, I then run the stock through the pots and pan cycle with very hot water in the dishwasher.  Raises the grain, removes most of the dents, and, when dry, leaves the stock ready for sanding and refinishing.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2012, 12:04:55 AM by davec2 »
"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Offline kutter

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Re: Whitening (sic?)
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2012, 12:10:41 AM »
Whiting Powder is calcium carbonate.
If that is chalk,,I don't know.
Brownells sells it, probably others. Maybe it's available in quantitys from some other industry's use.
A 3lb can lasts a long time.

Most say to mix it into a paste with acetone and paint the slurry onto the stock.
I use cheap rubbing alcohol instead of acetone.
The idea of the acetone is said to draw the oil out of the wood.
The whole idea of this very slow method is to allow the oil to be draw out on it's own and captured in the absorbant whiting powder.
The acetone or alcohol is nothing more than a way of mixing the powder into a paste type consistancy so you can paint & gob it onto the wood where it will stick.

The acetone evaporates in a few seconds anyway, not giving you any advantage over the alcohol which takes a couple of minutes. That at least allows you to add layers of the stuff w/o the previous ones crumbling off.

The coating is very fragile when it dries. Hang the wood in a safe place and leave it alone for a few days. The bright white coating will turn yellow/brown as it draws the oil out of the wood.

When it looks like it's taken about all it can,, hold the wood over a trash can and brush the coating off with a toothbrush. This is a very dusty operation!
Then recoat it again with the paste. You'll probably have to add some more alcohol (or acetone if you insist!) to the old mix to get it up to speed. Glob it on and let it hang once again.
Do this over and over till no more oil is draw.
It can take weeks.,,but it's the only way to completely get all the imbedded oil out.

Ovencleaner (lye) will remove the overcoating of oil and grease from wood and draw oil out of the wood that's down in a 1/16" or so. It simply turns the grease and oil to soap and you rinse it off.
It will not get oil that has seeped into the wrist from the head of the stock.
That deep down oil will weep to the top and spoil a new finish or glue repair. It can reappear in a few minutes to a few days after a treatment.
Using Oxalic acid (wood bleach) is recommended as an after treatment if you do use  oven cleaner to both neutralize it and remove the uneven and funky colors that can appear from the process.

Acetone and laquer thinner soaks do not remove all the deep down oil either.
I've tried them all and though some of the methods will remove a great amount of oil and grease from the surface to get you started toward a clean piece of wood,,the whiting powder is the only way I've ever really found to get it completely clear of oil.
It's a very slow process for sure. Have plenty of other work to do in the mean time.

Offline PPatch

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Re: Whitening (sic?)
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2012, 03:53:10 AM »
Okay Dave2 - awarding 25 points for creativity for the dishwasher trick. Good one!

Dave (3?)
Dave Parks   /   Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Offline davec2

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Re: Whitening (sic?)
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2012, 06:51:28 AM »
PPatch,

Can't take credit for it...read it somewhere years ago, but I have done 5 or 6 Garand stocks and a couple of M-14s and all came out just great.  One of the best gunsmithing tricks I have ever picked up.  Actually, I put all the metal parts in as well except the barrel.  Gets everything pretty @!*% clean in one go.
"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Offline David Veith

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Re: Whitening (sic?)
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2012, 06:28:33 PM »
A lot of old school painter and window  glazers use it. Call some of the smaller paint store in your hunt for it. The big box store Sherwin Williams and so on you will get a glassy look of what do you want. Did I say I hate new part timers and collage kids that they think they know everything.
David
David Veith

Offline t.caster

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Re: Whitening (sic?)
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2012, 07:10:50 PM »
Hmmm, How about "Oil Dry" it's like kitty litter. Sure pulls fresh oil spills out of my concrete garage floor nicely.  ???
Tom C.

Offline kutter

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Re: Whitening (sic?)
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2012, 07:59:55 PM »
I tried the oil dry and kitty litter. They do work, but not to the extent of the whiting powder.

Packing the wood parts in a cardboard box or even a plastic bag with the stuff was the way I used it. Then I ocassionally shook the mix around to get fresh contact. Changed the stuff out if needed,,but that wasn't often.

I think if they were finer in consistancy they'd work even better.
That and making a paste up with it with alcohol again like the whiting powder would improve it's effect no doubt.

That last step gets the material right down onto and maybe slightly into the surface to draw the oil off as it weeps to the surface thru the wood fibers.

Whiting powder is calcium carbonate which I think is limestone(?).
One fella told me he uses dry portland cement to draw the oil out of wood,,,sounds like it'd probably work. Sure draws the oil out of your skin when you work with it.
But I thought it may leave a bit of a crust behind when you rinsed the last effort off the wood and it dried. Kinda of tough on the checkering & carving tools.

I'd thought of using plaster (gypsum). It's sometimes used as a filler in finishing wood anyway. But the whiting has worked so well for me that I've never gave it a try.
I don't know if mixing dry plaster with alcohol or acetone will make it set up the same as it does when mixed with water though. Something to test before slapping a coat onto the H&H Royal stock.

Offline T*O*F

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Re: Whitening (sic?)
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2012, 10:15:34 PM »
Quote
Whiting powder is calcium carbonate which I think is limestone(?).
One fella told me he uses dry portland cement

Whiting is slaked lime, the same stuff that is used in masonry.
Dave Kanger

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Offline kutter

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Re: Whitening (sic?)
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2012, 12:05:06 AM »
Well,,without getting into a chem lab throw-down over it,,Whiting is calcium carbonate according to the lable on the cans of it I have. Limestone rock being a main source of that stuff I believe..

Slaked lime is Calcium Hydroxide. Though the stuff starts out as calcium carbonate, so it may work just fine as an oil sponge.
The old Wall plaster was slaked lime w/ water added
Plaster of Paris is gypsum plaster. It sets up much quicker. Different from the common wall plaster.


Portland Cement is mostly calcium carbonate, but with several other ingredients added to make it set and for strength. All done up in a kiln at high temps.

What ever,,whiting powder works.
Slaked lime, gypsum plaster & plaster 0-Paris may work too but I've never tried them
I won't be brushing a coat of portland cement on any stocks soon though...

gunsports

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Re: Whitening (sic?)
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2012, 07:57:21 AM »
Thanks for the replies. Nice to have something in your own 'back yard' and not needing to import.

I restore old guns and in most cases, the wood is badly oil contaminated next to the action/lock areas. This will help a lot.

Thanks again.

Glen

Offline T*O*F

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Re: Whitening (sic?)
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2012, 05:07:50 AM »
Quote
Well,,without getting into a chem lab throw-down over it
Chem Lab Throwdown
It appears that we are both right and wrong.

Calcium carbonate is CaCO3 and takes many forms...limestone, chalk, egg shells, marble, coral reefs, etc.
Whiting is powdered and washed natural chalk.
Lime or Quicklime (CaO) is made from chalk.
Plaster is Ca (OH)2 whereby Lime is rehydrated.

Plaster of Paris is Calcium Sulfate CaSO4 which has been heated to 150 degrees C to drive off the water.  Upon rehydration it quickly solidifies. 

Blackboard or art chalk is made from compressed gypsum, so it is not the same as whiting.

It appears that only whiting has the chemical properties suitable for the intended purpose.
Dave Kanger

If religion is opium for the masses, the internet is a crack, pixel-huffing orgy that deafens the brain, numbs the senses and scrambles our peer list to include every anonymous loser, twisted deviant, and freak as well as people we normally wouldn't give the time of day.
-S.M. Tomlinson