Trade Rifle Patch Boxes

[JoeG]

 
I've looked at several original trade rifles but I never had the chance to take a patchbox off an original and examing it.

Three of the major suppliers for the fur and indian trade produced hundreds of rifles with fairly identical
patchboxes
  J. Henry , had two basic styles on early guns
 Derringer used the eagle head , and Leman used the modified horse head

My question is ;
Were all these boxes hand cut from sheet brass ,
stamp cut
or cast ?

and if they were hand cut did they have some sort of jig

I've cut out out a few and wonder they were produced in such a large numbers

[Dave B]

The of the Leamans that I have  held three had the cap boxes from cast brass. One chief grade rifle was a sheet patch box Others could be different

[JCKelly]

I bought this .50 cal smoothbore gun from the late Cecil C. Keyser in 1969. Assorted markings on the barrel indicate it was made for Indian use. Converted from flint.

I just took a look at it, this patchbox appears cut out of sheet brass. The release is an extension of the toeplate.

I really doubt that anyone invested in dies to stamp out such shapes at the time. In my educated-only-by-experience-in-manufacturing opinion Mr. Deringer would have done the same as we today, make a pattern or patterns & saw the brass sheet to shape. But I have no direct knowledge of the matter.

[bgf]

Cutting out one a year (like most of us do) makes the process tedious at times.  If one always made the same box, though, it would be very easy to make a bunch: Cut out all the pieces to pattern for expected production, then assemble either as needed or during idle periods.  I've thought about this often, as 3/4 of the time I spend making something is usually figuring out (or remembering how to do) each step.  By the time I'm done, it usually is going well ...

[peterm1_rifle]

Making patch boxes in any kind of number is difficult when using sheet metal unless it is stamped out. I have in the past made a few and even when using a template. I would make a template in paper/cardboard and paste this onto the metal to guide the cutting which was done using a jeweller's saw. But that process is very fraught. It is slow and well nigh impossible (at least with my skills) to get precisely the same result each time. Mostly, minor variations did not matter as the boxes went onto different rifles but the boxes were far from interchangeable.  One good thing was that templates made in this way could always be photocopied for future reference and kept for future use.

[JoeG]

Thanks for the responses ,

Thats a real nice Derringer. you posted
the eagle head would easier to copy than the side plates,and that is were you see the most variation in guns
I know that the major fur trade suppliers were not one man shops and also farmed work out to other gunsmiths. I remember reading that Leman had 50 people working in his shop.

They must had several people just making patch boxes.
When I study pictures I don't see much variation in samples of the same style box
they all seem almost identical. Better than I can do by hand.
But like bgj said if you make several hundred a year you get
real good at it.

I know that there were barrel and lock suppliers.
Has anyone come  across a patch box supplier in the 1820's or were they all made in house