Author Topic: Need help determining date & location of horn  (Read 8174 times)

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6534
  • I Like this hat!!
Need help determining date & location of horn
« on: July 14, 2008, 09:46:47 PM »
Can any of you horn experts estimate the date and location where this horn was built based on the type of horn and style??  The nails are handmade tapered headless steel or iron pegs. There is gunpowder in the horn.




De Oppresso Liber
Marietta, GA

Liberty is the only thing you cannot have unless you are willing to give it to others. – William Allen White

Learning is not compulsory...........neither is survival! - W. Edwards Deming

Offline T.C.Albert

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3515
    • the hunting pouch
Re: Need help determining date & location of horn
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2008, 11:08:59 PM »
Wow, it looks exactly like a reputedly famous horn fore sale last week?
(im sorry, couldnt resist...) Were you  able to aquire it ?

Other than having a great story, it looks pretty non descript, and
in my opinion kind of a-typical of any American style with that spout...
but Im just guessing.

Do you know what kind of wood the plug is made of? That may help
a bit...? Tight growth rings from old first cut forest etc, locally indiginous wood etc...thats really  all I can see that you have to go on...

Sorry...
T.C.Albert     
"...where would you look up another word for thesaurus..."
Contact at : huntingpouch@gmail.com

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6534
  • I Like this hat!!
Re: Need help determining date & location of horn
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2008, 02:13:27 PM »
No I did not buy it... way too much although the story was intriguing.  I thought maybe it could go with Brian Lamaster's rifle.....  Since the provenance is all oral family history I just wondered if the horn itself might indicate anything of use in establishing its origin.  Like type of cattle, style of plug etc.
De Oppresso Liber
Marietta, GA

Liberty is the only thing you cannot have unless you are willing to give it to others. – William Allen White

Learning is not compulsory...........neither is survival! - W. Edwards Deming

Mike Norin

  • Guest
Re: Need help determining date & location of horn
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2008, 05:18:48 PM »
It's a pretty plain horn , I think it could have been made at just about any time . Do you have the story that goes with it,on who had it or how long it has been in the family or what part of the country it came from ?

Online rich pierce

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 18918
Re: Need help determining date & location of horn
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2008, 05:29:20 PM »
Size?
It looks like a home-made horn (not made by a horner).  Can you tell if the plug was turned on a lathe?  I'd guess pre 1820 unless it is small but that's a rough guess.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6534
  • I Like this hat!!
Re: Need help determining date & location of horn
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2008, 07:23:14 PM »

Here is the info he had on eBay........

Original Powder Horn from the Daniel Boone Family


My family has had sole possession of this powder horn since the 1800s. When I was in my teens, my mother told me that her grandmother had been a close friend of a Mary Sholl, who was a daughter of one of Daniel Boone’s Daughters (Levina). Mrs. Sholl gave this powder horn to my great-great grandmother, Sara Masters, when her family moved from Missouri to Iowa in 1885. The powder horn had seen many years of use before it was given to her. I was told this powder horn dates from 1820 to 1840. She gave it to her daughter, Ruth, who in turn, told her own children (there were 5) that it was owned and used by the Boone family, perhaps Daniel Boone himself.  My mother inherited it.

I was given this information approximately 45 years ago and have no demonstrable proof of the lineage of this powder horn except to state that my mother was absolutely certain (and very proud of the fact) that this powder horn belonged to the Daniel Boone family. There is no reason to doubt her family's oral history.

This powder horn still has grains of gunpowder inside. It has the original hand-carved base-plug and brass fittings for a sling. It was in a display case for many decades and is in remarkable condition.


De Oppresso Liber
Marietta, GA

Liberty is the only thing you cannot have unless you are willing to give it to others. – William Allen White

Learning is not compulsory...........neither is survival! - W. Edwards Deming

Offline G-Man

  • Member 3
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2217
Re: Need help determining date & location of horn
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2008, 08:16:17 PM »
Hard to say on the horn, but fow what it's worth the Sholl/Scholl/Shull family name connection to the Boone family during Daniel's lifetime is true.  One of Boone's daughters married into the family in the 1790s in Kentucky.

Guy

Offline wpalongrifle

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 212
  • gunmaker/hornsmith
    • mkarkalla.blogspot.com
Re: Need help determining date & location of horn
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2008, 04:35:51 AM »
hey drtimboone, i'll take a stab at it!!!! my guess is 1810-1840 berks county pa. looks very similar to one i have in my collection.  another very simular one  i have is considerd a pocket horn, it doesn't have a strap staple in the throat.
and is a few years later in age, same shape and plug ,just smaller in size. 
mike karkalla
F&AM Chartiers Valley#725
North American Order of the Beaver
mkarkalla.blogspot.com

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6534
  • I Like this hat!!
Re: Need help determining date & location of horn
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2008, 11:23:29 PM »
Thanks Mike, I have seen some conversations on here in the past where guys have talked about the breed of cattle the horn came from etc. etc. so I am hoping that we may even be able to tighten the shot group  even closer!!

INteresting since Boone was originally from the Berks Co area..maybe he liked the style even though if this was cdone by Him or Nathan it mould have likely been in MO in around 1810-1830-40.

Would you be willing to post pictures Mike??

De Oppresso Liber
Marietta, GA

Liberty is the only thing you cannot have unless you are willing to give it to others. – William Allen White

Learning is not compulsory...........neither is survival! - W. Edwards Deming

Offline Randy Hedden

  • member 2
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2250
  • American Mountain Men #1393
Re: Need help determining date & location of horn
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2008, 01:23:10 AM »
hey drtimboone, i'll take a stab at it!!!! my guess is 1810-1840 berks county pa. looks very similar to one i have in my collection.  another very simular one  i have is considerd a pocket horn, it doesn't have a strap staple in the throat.
and is a few years later in age, same shape and plug ,just smaller in size. 

Mike,

I am wondering what you see as dominate features of the pictured horn that indicate to you that this might be a Berks County, Pennsylvania horn? To me it is a fairly nondescript horn that could have been made anywhere. It does not look like any thing like what I think of as a Berks County horn. Did the style and shape of Berks County horns change in later years?

Randy Hedden

www.harddogrifles.com
American Mountain Men #1393

Offline wpalongrifle

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 212
  • gunmaker/hornsmith
    • mkarkalla.blogspot.com
Re: Need help determining date & location of horn
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2008, 04:54:01 AM »
hi randy, while i'm not an authority on all powder horns,the ones i acquire in my collection i try to find out as much as i can on each. the ones similar to Mr. Boone's i had taken to a H.C.H guild meeting and after
long discussions by authorities on Berk's co.horn, they  said  right away, that the placement of the staple far up the throat and the turned, more commercial looking plug, mass produced. much like the pressed Lancaster co. were in the 1830-40 time period. was Berk's co. pa.   as for the similarities most Berk's have a bee hive dome look. i agree this horn doesn't  and looks like it was made by novice, i think it was made by a horner with some experience.
it's a good looking horn. the color, curve and the staple placement.  in closure "my stab at it " was from info i received from collectors with far more knowledge than i have. hope i make sense...mike
mike karkalla
F&AM Chartiers Valley#725
North American Order of the Beaver
mkarkalla.blogspot.com

Offline Randy Hedden

  • member 2
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2250
  • American Mountain Men #1393
Re: Need help determining date & location of horn
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2008, 05:24:19 AM »
Mike,

Thanks for the info. I am not an authority on old horns either, but the only Berks County or Berks/Lebanon associated horns I have any knowledge of all have bulbous domed butt plugs and often times a screw tip or applied tip. The only thing I could imagine is that if the pictured horn was a Berks County horn it must be from a somewhat later time period.

Thanks again,

Randy Hedden

www.harddogrifles.com
« Last Edit: July 19, 2008, 09:30:27 PM by Randy Hedden »
American Mountain Men #1393

Offline wpalongrifle

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 212
  • gunmaker/hornsmith
    • mkarkalla.blogspot.com
Re: Need help determining date & location of horn
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2008, 06:08:03 AM »
randy, i agree, but this horn looks like it screams for a turned screwtip. looks like the maker might have been intimidated by the task. hence novice horner. mike
mike karkalla
F&AM Chartiers Valley#725
North American Order of the Beaver
mkarkalla.blogspot.com