Author Topic: pull ball with worm?  (Read 5150 times)

Offline WadePatton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5298
  • Tennessee
pull ball with worm?
« on: December 19, 2012, 06:48:24 AM »
No, i didn't dryball.

But i was just informed by a War of Nothern Aggression enthusiast that what looks like a tow worm to me was used to pull a ball BITD-that he's done it in fact with his musket.

I see no reference otherwise. Is he smoking the tow-or am i the unlearned one? 

just curious as i had dropped him a note wrt his ebay listings for these "bullet pullers" and that was part of his reply.
Hold to the Wind

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

  • Member 3
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12657
Re: pull ball with worm?
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2012, 07:53:31 AM »
The English issued a "ball drawer" with their model 1800 Baker rifle, among other accoutrements.  It consists of a bulbous section roughly the size of the .62 cal bore with a wood screw type extension for running into the ball.  It has a female thread to match the end of the iron ramrod.
The tow worm cannot be used to withdraw a ball, especially from a fouled bore, and certainly not repeatedly.  It isn't strong or stiff enough.
Here in North America, we have simply emulated the European methods, whether that sticks in your craw of not.  A tow worm even one built to military specs which are much heavier than civilian models, is still a tow worm.  At least that's how I see it...
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline WadePatton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5298
  • Tennessee
Re: pull ball with worm?
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2012, 08:17:14 AM »
Thanks Taylor, much as I suspected.  I ran across the listing as i purchased my tow worm.  Ne'er used one properly-just found out what "proper" was.  I had used the corkscrew to retrieve a cleaning patch, but now have ZERO further use for cleaning patches.  The only patches for me now are those wrapped around a ball.



So much information on the highway, and folks are still lost eh?
Hold to the Wind

Offline Standing Bear

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 667
Re: pull ball with worm?
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2012, 04:30:25 PM »
I never used one as such but can see unloading a minie ball from a clean barrel as POSSIBLE - maybe.
TC
Nothing is hard if you have the right equipment and know how to use it.  OR have friends who have both.

http://texasyouthhunting.com/

Offline TPH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 923
Re: pull ball with worm?
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2012, 08:09:19 PM »
It's very possible, even necessary when coming off duty with a loaded weapon. The US and CS armies issued a "wiper" to every soldier. They came in many different variations but the pattern was basically the same:



For some reason or other, modern collectors and shooters call this a worm but in the period the government called it a wiper.

This was to be used with issued tow but could also be used with a patch to wipe and then oil the bore.

Also issued was a "ballscrew" to be used for pulling a ball from the loaded barrel:



This is an original example for the Civil War Rifled Musket, cal. .58 or .577.

The ballscrew, like the wiper was attached to the ramrod by the threads on the end of the steel ramrod and it was dropped forcefully onto the soft lead bullet in the barrel and then was screwed into the bullet while applying preasure. The bullet could then be withdrawn.

I have several examples of recovered bullets that show signs of being pulled. Some have the threaded hole showing use of the ballscrew but others, Minié balls in particular, do show that they have been pulled using the wiper. How it was done I don't know but ..... I have several that were picked up in Federal assembly areas after the Battle of Port Republic a few miles from here.

It looks like your Civil War "enthusiast" was at least partially correct, some people will use the wrong tool when the right, more efficient one is not available.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2012, 08:12:27 PM by TPH »
T.P. Hern

Offline WadePatton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5298
  • Tennessee
Re: pull ball with worm?
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2012, 11:32:57 PM »
Thanks TP, I'm sure a steel RR is key to either process.

I do not understand the concept of pulling a properly loaded ball/minie, but then that wouldn't be the first military practice that seems like a deliberate waste of time and energy to me.

Maybe this happened:  Dryball, no screw handy, engage wiper over ball--jams in so tightly that nothing moves so rod is unscrewed and powder is forced into nipple so that ball and wiper can be shot out...which leads to the lost ball/wiper combination- sometimes found by the relic hunters.  Why else would a ball be left in the wiper?
Hold to the Wind

Offline TPH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 923
Re: pull ball with worm?
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2012, 03:06:22 AM »
Actually, pulling a load was necessary on a regular basis for a number of reasons;

(1) When returning from guard duty with arms loaded in the field whether near to the enemy or not, arms were loaded and ready to fire.

(2) When expecting to go into action, arms were made ready. If the troops were not sent in or for some other reason did not have to discharge their weapons they returned with loaded firearms.

(3) in case of a misfire and that happened occasionally after firing on a humid or very dry day.

(4) Troops spent the night lying on their arms during inclement or severely damp weather expecting action at any time. This happened more often than you think, one example is the Stonewall Brigade the night before their destruction at the Bloody Angle. The Union attack was expected all night and when the Federals hit just before dawn, the Southern troops attempted to fire to repulse the attack and a large percentage of the muskets failed to fire. A volley of popping percussion caps and only a few actual rounds discharging brought a cheer from the yanks as they charged the veteran rebels who could only defend themselves with a bayonets, clubbed muskets and a few functioning muskets. In the days of flint guns, this problem was even more severe.

When any of the above happened, the ball had to be pulled and, when possible, the powder saved. Why? Army frugality, especially in peace time. Ammunition was expensive and often hard to get. Occasionally, in the field during heavy operations, there would be facilities set up by the regimental armorers for remaking ammunition, especially if a great deal had been expended and a source of replacement ammunition was not close by. If not remade in the field, components were sent back to contractors to be remade.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2012, 03:08:46 AM by TPH »
T.P. Hern

Daryl

  • Guest
Re: pull ball with worm?
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2012, 04:35:39 AM »
The 1861 .577 Enfield Musketoon tool I now have, has both the towe worm and a ball pulling screw on the tool, along with a wide flat turn-screw (screw driver) and a narrow turn screw, nipple prick and an Enfield nipple wrench too. It's a cool tool.

Old Bob

  • Guest
Re: pull ball with worm?
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2013, 05:18:37 PM »
He's right. I've done it myself when a ball screw wasn't available. Warn't easy, since the points of the puller need to be angled just right to dig into the ball and these weren't. Actually, there is an example of a dug relic Minie with a worm attached to it in Civil War ProjectilesII by McKee & Mason.

Offline hanshi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5328
  • My passion is longrifles!
    • martialartsusa.com
Re: pull ball with worm?
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2013, 07:48:58 PM »
While I've pulled many a ball - never dry-balled, understand; just like to practice my pulling and keep in shape - I now mostly dribble in some 4F and push the prb out.
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

  • Member 3
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12657
Re: pull ball with worm?
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2013, 08:05:18 PM »
You can use a butcher knife to open a can of paint, but it isn't the right tool.  Chances are you'll badly damage the knife.  Same with the tow worm...not the right tool for the job.
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Old Bob

  • Guest
Re: pull ball with worm?
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2013, 10:52:12 PM »
Nah, I wouldn't recommend it either. But, if the bore ain't fouled bad, it's a pretty easy pull.

Offline Robin Henderson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 530
  • AKA "Wobblyshot"
Re: pull ball with worm?
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2013, 01:17:29 AM »
I totally agree with TPH. I have seen dug minies that appeared to have been pulled with what he was calling a wiper which is probably what we call a worm.
Flintlock is the only truly reliable source of ignition in a muzzle loader.

Offline TPH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 923
Re: pull ball with worm?
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2013, 10:15:04 PM »
I totally agree with TPH. I have seen dug minies that appeared to have been pulled with what he was calling a wiper which is probably what we call a worm.

Yes, exactly. When the name changed I have no idea, but the correct name in US and British military manuals is wiper.

And as D. Taylor says, it wasn't the right tool but apparently could be made to work sometimes though I wouldn't want to try it, the right tool, when available, works so much better.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2013, 10:15:34 PM by TPH »
T.P. Hern