Author Topic: Finished..........Critical comments welcome.  (Read 13639 times)

JohnTyg

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Finished..........Critical comments welcome.
« on: December 25, 2012, 07:33:58 PM »
Finally finished it although it still needs a front sight and the lock needs to be polished.

I was surprised by the photos, I think it looks much better in the pics than in person where the flaws seem to standout more.

Would appreciate any critiques that would help me improve my next rifle.  I'll throw out there a couple of things that standout to my eye.  My biggest gripe is with things I set up early on.  The web is too think and therefore the forearm looks too thick top to bottom, especially from the top of site to bottom of entrance thimble.  This is despite revealing quite a bit of barrel flat, more than I wanted.  The butt plate is tilted too far forward,  I think this makes the butt look too narrow.  The tang could slope down from the breech sooner.  The carving is not really traditional and I need more study there or to take a course.  Transition of the wrist into the underside of the lock plate still needs work........Overall it still looks a little like a pre-carve to me.

Don't get me wrong, I'm relatively happy with what I've produced, just hope I can do better on my next.  Planning another Lancaster from the extra Pecatonica Dickert pre-carve I had made up at the same time as this one (Hard sugar maple, moderate curl, forearm left square and inlet for barrel and ramrod only).  I plan on using the same butt plate, but leaving it at 5 1/4" instead of cutting it back to 5".  Would also install it with the flat  more perpendicular to the axis of the butt stock.  I think this would make the butt stock look more full and contrast with a slim wrist.  Possibly open up the barrel inlet for a "C" weight barrel, lots of wood available for that, and maybe use Chambers new lock that slopes down more at the tail.  Critical comments welcome. 

Thanks for everyone's comments and encouragement on the forum.   T*O*F* thanks for the replacement butt plate to replace the one I cracked.  Jim and ACER really appreciated your help in walking me through some of the design and architectural questions I had. 

Merry Christmas,

John





















Photos taken with a cell phone and camera, those with a flash show more orange and those with natural light more red than are on actual rifle.  Last pic is probably closest to actual color.

Offline Tom Currie

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Re: Finished..........Critical comments welcome.
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2012, 07:47:30 PM »
John, Congrats on a very nice rifle. I'm really not finding much to critique, I usually try to offer something but just not finding much that I could offer. Sounds like you're hard enough on yourself already. That mindset will serve you well as you continue to build and strive to improve your skills.

Merry Christmas

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Finished..........Critical comments welcome.
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2012, 09:48:39 PM »
I agree with Tom...you're being super critical of yourself, when I don't think it's warranted.  Yes, you might have bent the tang down a little more at the juncture of the barrel, but it's certainly not wrong.  The forend looks fine for depth, in the photos, and you did not expose too much barrel.  the only thing that sticks out to my eye is your use of too thick material for the slides/keys/wedges.  You should end up with something not much over 1/16" after polishing, or at least that's what I try to do.
Nor is the pitch and length of the butt plate incorrect.  I think they're fine.  In short it's a very fine rifle.
On your pre-carve stock, make sure to drop the barrel channel so that you can reduce the thickness of the web, providing it doesn't interfere with a pre-inlet lock.
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Finished..........Critical comments welcome.
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2012, 10:00:10 PM »
John, your workmanship looks from here to be very good. It looks as though you did a nice job on the finnish too. I think your own gig list is spot on except for being too critical of yourself. I will look forward to seing more of your work.   Smylee

jamesthomas

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Re: Finished..........Critical comments welcome.
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2012, 12:37:55 AM »
 I think you are being to hard on yourself. I personally think the forearm is O.K. and the top of the buttstock is barely noticable. The only thing I see that MIGHT be kinda different is the lock panel could transtion into the wrist a bit better. But I have'nt even built my first rifle so what do I know?.  I would be proud of that rifle if it was me. A big thumbs up here. BTW, Don't worry about the barrel pins they look excellent on the rifle so don't loose any sleep over them.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2012, 12:41:37 AM by james e »

Offline KLMoors

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Re: Finished..........Critical comments welcome.
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2012, 01:15:25 AM »
Looks real nice to my eye. I only issues I have are matters of taste. I would have shortened up the patchbox a little. It looks a wee bit long to me. I agree that the tang carving could be a little more sophisticated but it still looks fine as is. These are really minor points on a great rifle though. Nice, clean, crisp workmanship.

Offline Eric Smith

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Re: Finished..........Critical comments welcome.
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2012, 01:19:50 AM »
I like it. Looks to me like a fine job. Probably a few who could have done a better job of it, and a lot who could have done a poorer job of it. Nice finish. I would say you are WELL on your way to becoming an fine builder. Love the finish.
Eric Smith

JohnTyg

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Re: Finished..........Critical comments welcome.
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2012, 01:58:04 AM »
Thanks for the comments so far.  Pretty much agree with all the above, as well as the wedges being too thick.  In regards to the  patchbox, to my eye it has always appeared that the design of the finial was drawn within the boundaries of a rectangle (it was) and this should have been tapered somewhat. 

As far as being too critical of myself, that's just me.  Just to put this into perspective, although I dislike patting myself on the back, I am relatively pleased with what I have accomplished with the help of this forum.  I do think it is a pretty good effort and is the best I could have done at my level of experience.  At the same time I really think critical evaluation is important and still have lots to learn, the "critical" evaluation of ones work is to me the fun part.  I'd like to build a better rifle next time.  If one thinks he knows it all, then he probably doesn't know enough to realize what it is he doesn't know. 

For example the transition from wrist to under the lock panel could be improved.  Here's my rifle along with an original? that I admire, and would like to emulate this part of the architecture.


(the nice convex surface of the wrist breaks down and hollows-out as it meet the panel)



Here's another that I think is brillant.  I apologise for posting someones else's work without permission or giving credit but it is so well done!  Without critical self assessment You don't improve.


(if inappropriate to post an uncredited image would ask moderator to remove this image)

So compliments and sincere critiques equally welcome and all appreciated.

John

 "good clinical judgement comes from experience,......and experience comes from bad clinical judgement"  I think that applies to many different fields of endeavor.

Offline John SMOthermon

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Re: Finished..........Critical comments welcome.
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2012, 02:40:34 AM »
THat is a great looking rifle. I'm sure you will enjoy it... I know I would  ;D 
Smo

Good Luck & Good Shootin'

JTPotter

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Re: Finished..........Critical comments welcome.
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2012, 05:20:32 AM »
I would be VERY, VERY happy if that was my work! If you don't mind,
how many rifles does it take to get to that skill level? I am on my first build
and can hoping mine looks half that good!
What finish is on that stock?
Really nice congrats!
JT

JohnTyg

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Re: Finished..........Critical comments welcome.
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2012, 05:50:33 AM »
JTPotter,

Welcome to the forum.  If this is you first rifle don't hesitate to take advantage of the wealth of experience offered here,  you'll build a better rifle for it.

This is my second build, everyone learns at a different pace.  Completed my first rifle in my teens in the 70s.
Have a little more experience that that would suggest since had a couple of false starts (band sawing through a lock panel in a blank that I just finished inletting a barrel and butt plate, etc.).

The finish is a combination of stains (walnut and nut brown) over an orange dye. Did lots of experimentation on scraps first.  Burnished the wood after sealing and final finish is Chambers Traditional oil finish.

Again, welcome,

John



billm

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Re: Finished..........Critical comments welcome.
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2012, 05:56:50 AM »
Thats pretty impressive.I like it alot. You are hard on yourself and I am the same way.I think the craftsmanship is wonderful and Its a gun I would be very proud of.well done.I cant wait to see the next one...Bill

Offline duca

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Re: Finished..........Critical comments welcome.
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2012, 08:04:01 AM »
Awesome! Nice work man.
...and on the eighth day
God created the Longrifle...

Offline WadePatton

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Re: Finished..........Critical comments welcome.
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2012, 09:07:44 AM »
Most excellent.   Methinks you're doing our mentors here (and what others you may have) proud.  Only way to improve is to practice,  soooo

What's next?
Hold to the Wind

JohnTyg

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Re: Finished..........Critical comments welcome.
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2012, 08:12:21 PM »
Thanks Wade,
I think I'll do another Lancaster but go a little earlier and focus on keeping it simple and getting the architecture right.

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Finished..........Critical comments welcome.
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2012, 01:09:06 AM »
John, after all that work, you must be proud of your accomplishment. This is a great looking rifle. Nice lines, great color, your workmanship is excellent. I am proud of you, too, as quite possibly everyone who pitched in when you were questioning every curve in your carving behind the cheekpiece!

Well done! Great way to ring in the new year!
Tom Curran's web site : http://monstermachineshop.net
Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

Offline wattlebuster

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Re: Finished..........Critical comments welcome.
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2012, 01:58:09 AM »
How could I be critical on a gun that looks better than anything I've EVER built. Nice work  ;D
Nothing beats the feel of a handmade southern iron mounted flintlock on a cold frosty morning

JohnTyg

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Re: Finished..........Critical comments welcome.
« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2012, 02:40:23 AM »
Tom, 

Discovering this forum has really helped me "raise the bar" as to what I could build and I've had a lot of fun as well!  Now that I "sort of" understand what I'm doing (not entirely) I can't wait to get started on my next rifle.
My sincere thanks for your and other members help and advice.

John

Here are some before and after pics






JohnTyg

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Re: Finished..........Critical comments welcome.
« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2012, 02:53:25 AM »
Oh,.....
My wife says I need to celebrate finishing the rifle by taking her out to dinner since I've "driven her crazy" over the past year.

Offline PPatch

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Re: Finished..........Critical comments welcome.
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2012, 06:13:15 AM »
Take that gal out to dinner John, be money in the bank for your next build. Your rifle is a keeper John, I like it, the fit and finish are excellent. Do you have an idea for a next project?

dave
Dave Parks   /   Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

JohnTyg

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Re: Finished..........Critical comments welcome.
« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2012, 02:00:01 PM »
Dave,    I'd like to stick with a Lancaster for now and try to improve some of the things I think could have been done better.  Probably use a heavier barrel and go a decade earlier?  I'll stick with a 2 piece brass patchbox.  Would like to drop the slope of the tang closer to the breech and see if Chambers new lock would be appropriate.  It would be helpful to attend a carving course in the meantime.  Thanks for your comment.

tyro

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Re: Finished..........Critical comments welcome.
« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2012, 04:01:13 PM »
  My ex was looking at your work...now mine has to improve! Seriously, you are trying to match work with the best of the journeymen from an era when these craftsmen lived with their tools in their hands....and your second build is at this level. Some men made their living at this trade and their standards never came up to yours now. I can hardly wait to see the new and improved model next year!...TY

Offline B.Habermehl

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Re: Finished..........Critical comments welcome.
« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2012, 01:54:32 AM »
John, you did a really nice job, especially for a second rifle.  As to your butplate pitch question, it's just fine as is, I would not change it unless I were trying to duplicate a particular origional. I can't imagine that what you have will not result in any thing but a verry comfortable shooting rifle. Myself and a bunch of others wish our first work looked nearly as good as yours. Your carveing will will improve with expierence and study. I like your work behind the cheekpiece better than the tang area. Keep up your study and good work. BJH
BJH

JohnTyg

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Re: Finished..........Critical comments welcome.
« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2012, 04:05:57 AM »
BJH,
Thanks, it does actually point and lift to shoulder very nicely.  I think the drop was about 3 1/2"
and the pull 13 3/4".  Suspect it will be very comfortable to shoot.
John

Offline B.Habermehl

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Re: Finished..........Critical comments welcome.
« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2012, 06:50:54 AM »
By dang, maybe it's past time to shoot your new friend! In my little world rifles are meant to shoot and hunt. Of course in my little world they know me. :D Enjoy your creation, use it!  BJH
BJH