Positioning Trigger, trigger guard and lock.

[Jerry V Lape]

I am using an simple trigger pinned in wood with a smaller lock (about the same as small Siler).  If I make contact with the sear about 7/16th from the pivot point, and center the trigger in the bow, the front of the bow is going to be almost to the back edge of the pan.  I have looked at many of the rifles in RCA from the Lancaster school and there seems to be no standard location for the trigger guard with the front of bow shown everywhere from the axle of the cock to about the same location as I have facing me.  Is there a convention here I am missing? 

[Acer Saccharum]

Jerry, I always go for ideal trigger placement and fulcrum. It sounds like you're OK there. Then place the guard over the trigger so it looks right. Not too far forward in the opening, not too far back, either.

The guard, and trigger plate need to fit the curvature of the stock.

If there is a convention, I missed it too.

[G-Man]

I don't think there is so much a convention on American longrifles - although most of them seem tend to end up with the front of the bow below the cock or a tad forward.  Just my opinion, but when it comes to some other types of guns - Georgian period English fowlers for example - the shape of the bow with it's cutback curve very deliberately serves as the visual balance to the gooseneck of the cock -  they visually offset - almost "mirror" each other  - and things seem to be very carefully placed - i.e. you can draw a vertical line tangent to the front of the bow and the front of the lower curve of the cock.  Your eye notices very quickly that something is "off" about the flow of the gun when they don't line up this way. English Georgian era architects and craftsmen getting the growing neoclassical influence in the 1700s were often obsessed with visual balance - I think my favorite example of this being carried to extremes are the false doors at Drayton Hall that they installed because they felt they needed to balance the look of other doors that were not centered on a wall.

Guy

[Acer Saccharum]

Where the trigger ends up is so dependent on which lock you use. A chubby late English is going to have a trigger closer to the touchhole than a long/large Germanic will.

[bgf]

Just for another perspective, look at it from the other side...  The only hint of a "rule-of-thumb" I've ever been able to pick up is that the front post of the TG often is located under the rear lockbolt[nail, screw], which is roughly somewhere between the cock and the pan !  I assume this would be fairly safe, and give you enough room for a ramrod that is at longer than the barrel, or at least as long if the lug (or screw) on(in) the forward return is ahead of the post.  Its not 100% by any means, but there are a lot that seem to be that way, perhaps only by virtue of the constraints on each component; anywhere from the rear of the pan to the tumbler screw seems to have been acceptable.

[Lucky R A]

  The lock used and the location of the sear bar with in that lock determines the placement of the triggers be they single or DST.  The size of the guard bow pretty much determines the trigger placement.  Obviously some trigger guards are not intended for DST, while others could be used for either single or DST.   As Tom said The placement of the trigger particularly single triggers is determined by what looks correct.   I have seen many originals with triggers far too far forward in the bow for my taste, so what looks good visually to one may not to another.   

[Pete G.]

Just another thing to think about........Don't overlook the positioning between the front guard lug and the bottom of the  ramrod hole.

[Jim Kibler]

As others have said, the barrel positions the lock, the lock positions the trigger and the trigger positions the guard.  Having enough room for your finger in the guard and good aesthetics relative to trigger placement in the guard take priority over any other guard placement considerations.

[Acer Saccharum]

I like to get the guard lug as far to the butt as possible so I can maximize rr length.

That means getting the touchhole as far to the rear as possible, then trigger as far back as possible while still maintaining good geometry(leverage and trigger pull). All this in turn affects the overall form and profile of the wrist/lock area.

It's tricky business, designing a gun. But the time you spend is well worth it, because this breech/lock/wrist area is the absolute heart of the gun. If not done right, the gun just doesn't have appeal, something doesn't look quite right. This is going off on a bit of a tangent, but this area is so important and is often overlooked, or not understood. The difference between a good gun and a great one is usually right in this breech/lock/wrist area.

[Acer Saccharum]

I may have to build another gun, until I fully understand this area of building.

[mjm46@bellsouth.net]

When I position the trigger or trigger guard I want enough room in front of the trigger to be able to put my finger in there while wearing a glove. I see so many where there is not enough room or barely enough room to put a finger in there without a glove. Seems like a simple point but amazing how often it is ignored.

[Jerry V Lape]

Thanks for the help.  I could see no other reasonable solution than to position the trigger on the sear properly and adjust the trigger guard from there with sufficient space in front to give access to the trigger and to make the position within the bow look balanced.  The front post of the guard does come out under the rear lock pin which on this lock is about midway between pan and tumbler axle.

[mjm46@bellsouth.net]

You can cut of the front lug on the TG and solder a new one on in a better spot if needed. I have done a couple that way by making a lug like a barrel lug by folding sheet brass and soldering it  to the trigger guard.