Lock lubrication

[WadePatton]

  Laugh all you want. I like Amsoil synthetic 20/50 motorcycle oil used sparingly.

why would anybody laugh.  lubes are personal (now there's laugh) , and now that you brought it up, synthetics that is, I do have a bit of Amsoil ATF and no AT for it to be used in.  

Then i have bunch of lubes made for chain-drives open to the elements and dust of the road/trail.  Many of these go on wet and then dry (paraffin components) so as pick up less dust and crud of normal operation.  As i see it, that's the biggest problem with any lubricated thing-keeping the lube clean.  Dirty lube or excess (frozen) lube is the bane of anything lubricated.

But my guess is that Larry's trials will show less variation than one might expect...wagering beings.

omigosh-whale oil!!!

[hanshi]

I use bear oil, refined by myself.  It works extremely well

And to state the obvious, is anything really slicker than owl's grease ?

Yes there is.  If you have a pimply teenager you already have the best and cheapest oil you can get.......okay, maybe not "cheap:.

[Dphariss]

I'm finally getting around to a test of lock lubricants.  We often discuss a lubes ability to prevent rust.  For this test I'm interested only the ability to prevent friction.  I want to see if there is a measurable difference in lock speed with different lubricants.  I suspect that there are numerous favorites.  I'll probably select a group of 5 or 6 to time.  I have  some gut predictions but, I hope to supply numbers. 

There are many problems with variables in this attempt.  However, there is always something to learn, even if it is unexpected.  I'd like to try it and see what happens.  Feel free to suggest lubes you like, keeping in mind that preventing friction is our only concern in this test.

Regards.
Pletch

Try some 0w30 Amsoil or Mobil 1 syn motor oil.

Been using it on everything that does not need a grease. Seems to work well and has not real downsides that I know of. Pour point in under -50.
Temperature needs to be considered.
Firearms are often used in cold and I have had problems with oil gelling even slightly and producing misfires in brass suppository guns.
Some of the syn gun greases on the market. Tetra is one I use on some suppository guns.

Dan

[JDK]

I've used Tetra grease for years also.  I've been putting using in frizzen and tumbler camming surfaces on locks recently. That would be a good one for the test.

Enjoy, J.D.

[bgf]

I use bear oil, refined by myself.  It works extremely well

And to state the obvious, is anything really slicker than owl's grease ?

Yes there is.  If you have a pimply teenager you already have the best and cheapest oil you can get.......okay, maybe not "cheap:.

Soon enough...  If he's anything like I was (and there is a good chance he will be), I can just ask him what to use, because he WILL KNOW EVERYTHING .

[bgf]

Dan has a good point about temperature.  Not a big deal in Kentucky, usually, but it could be a factor elsewhere.  In addition to Dan, Daryl and Taylor ought to know a thing or two about cold weather!

[Dphariss]

I've used Tetra grease for years also.  I've been putting using in frizzen and tumbler camming surfaces on locks recently. That would be a good one for the test.

Enjoy, J.D.

Right. I am actually working today and did not slow down far enough to add that I too use it on high pressure area of FLs as you do.

Dan

[Bob Roller]

I have used the light oil that watch repairmen used to use.
I don't know what it was but at one time it was $1500 a
gallon in real currency.

Bob Roller

[Larry Pletcher]

I have used the light oil that watch repairmen used to use.
I don't know what it was but at one time it was $1500 a
gallon in real currency.

Bob Roller

Wonder if that is like sewing machine oil?  Larry

[wet willy]

Roller's reference to "light oil that watch repairmen use" is likely Moebius/Microgliss D5, which is used on mechanical watches in areas of high friction, such as the winding/setting mechanism and barrel arbors.

It is a modern synthetic, but not available outside watchmaking supply houses. It lists for around $23.00 for 20cc.

I've used it on my 1911 trigger, where it does a great job, but no so good on flint locks. On assembly, the locks work great but the lube does not tolerate high heat well, so frizzen rollers & sear springs get bogged down, percussion locks OK for fly, sear pivot & tumbler.

Not HC, but modern technology applied to historic firearms might be an interesting test.

[WadePatton]

I have used the light oil that watch repairmen used to use.

Used to? I hope they still do as some of us are silly enough to keep wearing mechanical watches.  miniature machinery being so interesting and non-toxic and all. mine are overdue, but so long as they're gaining (autos) i can't let it bother me.


the natural event at these trials:

in this corner we have whale oil, and over here the big bad bear grease, and both are here to attempt to strip the title of the one, the only, Owwwwwwwwl Poo!

get your bets placed.

did "we" get some owl stuff? bet that's fun to render

[David R. Pennington]

My bet is the synthetics will win out. I know temperature makes a big difference on the natural lubes. I was using bear oil but found it gets pretty stiff in cold weather. I mostly use just a good grade non detergent 10w oil.
A friend of mine a while back got annoyed at the hinges on his wood stove door sqeeking every time he opened it so he put some hi-performance synthetic moly oil on them. The draft from the fire would then suck the door shut before he could get a piece of wood in! Took forever for the oil to finally wear off!

[Scott Bumpus]

automatic transmision fluid

[Larry Pletcher]

Progress has been slow today.  I spent my time solving problems with infrared gates.   They have always been troublesome, but today static electricity in my dry basement and the sensitivity adjustments have taken too much time.  A potentiometer may need to be replaced.  There are a few fixes to try before I resort to that though.  During teh afternoon I did get a dry run done using Rem oil on the lock.  Numbers ran from .0160 to .0220 seconds. This won't be used as a bench mark because the sensitivity may change the results.  So, nothing final here, just some slow progress.

Regards,
Pletch

[William Worth]

I do a full emersion water cleaning on my locks everytime.  I dry them with shop air and wipe down, then spray them down with WD-40 or Rem-Oil.  Then wipe off all of it that shows itself.  I like the water displacing nature of it.  Most oils will just float around on top of water.

[WadePatton]

...I like the water displacing nature of it.  Most oils will just float around on top of water.

that's about the only thing I'll use it for (WDfourzero), as that is it's highest, best purpose by me. 

[Larry Pletcher]

I finally solved the gate sensitivity today.  I replaced the two potentiometers on the interface board.   These seem to adjust smoothly and give me much more control of the gate sensitivity.  I did a short test and feel I'm ready to begin the testing.

The cleaning method is my next problem.  My plan is to do a three stage cleaning.  First the lock goes into warm water with a little dish soap added and be scrubbed.  Next into rinse water and blown dry.  Lastly I'll use acetone or alcohol to do a final rinse and blow dry.  That should leave the lock absolutely lube free.

Beginning each set of trials and after applying lube, I'll snap the lock a couple of times before timing the first trial.  Hope things go well.

Regards,
Pletch

[Larry Pletcher]

Today I tested six lubes against a trial with no lube at all.  My gut said that the lubed tests would be pretty close with the no lube slower.  This was not the case, however. The no lube trial averaged in the middle of the lubed scores. Below are the lubes in the order they finished with their average for 10 trials:

1. Chambers 2 lube*  .0136
2. Colonial Oil*           .0145
3. No Lube                  .0149
4. CLP                         .0153
5. Boe Shield T9           .0157
6. Rig                          .0158
7. Ballistall                  .0172

A few comments need to be made about these scores and lubes.  First it was very hard to clean the lube off between trials.  I had to wash the lock carefully in alcohol.  This last step had to be done more than once in some cases.  I timed the no lube first and realized I didn't wash it thoroughly enough, and had to toss the times.  If I used those numbers, no lube would have been in first place.  Cleaning definitely is the crucial step here.

The infrared gates worked better than before I swapped the parts on the board.  I got a few scores out of range, but not many.

*The Chambers product was a 2 part lube.  A white grease was used between main spring and tumbler and also on the frizzen spring.  A thin oil was used on the rotating parts.  The white grease was very hard to clean off after this test.

The "Colonial" oil sample was the only sample that would be historically correct, coming from a marine animal.

The individual times in each set were more widely spread than I was expecting.  The averages were in the ball park with earlier timing.  The mechanical times for this same lock, published in the JHAT vol IV, was .0151 seconds IIRC.

I have a number of other lubes to try, however my cold wore me out and I stopped with these today.  I will probably try to get a few more done, but after today I think I know how it will turn out.  (I didn't do my favorite which is Rem Oil.)  I'll continue to look at the numbers for any trends.
Regards,
Pletch

[Bull Shannon]

My question would then be, "are the differences in time enough to be significant?"  If one of the lubes tested is known to be a good rust preventative but falls into the middle of the pack as far as times go, does that justify switching over to using a lube with the best time?

[Larry Pletcher]

I want to continue to mull all this over, but I think the differences are statistically insignificant. The ranges of trials were too wide to be decisive. In fact the narrowest range was for Ballistol, the slowest average.  This would be easier to see if you could see the group of scores for each lube. I'll try to see to that.

I do like Jim's lube combination. The lube for sliding surfaces makes sense. Between shooting sessions, I would use a lube based on its rust prevention. I better let it go for now. This needs more thought.

Regards
Pletch

[smylee grouch]

Pletch; thanks for your efforts. I look forward to the results as I'm sure most others here do too.

[WadePatton]

would an ultrasonic cleaning be more effective?  results do look a bit "tight".

interested in the order of testing.

[Pete G.]

How about spraying the lock with brake parts cleaner? I use it for degreasing parts and it does a good job at that.

We all learn something from these tests. Who would have predicted that no lube would appear towards the middle of the list? Now begins the speculation as to why things are the way they are.

[sonny]

anybody try the powered graphite in a lock?.........I sprinkled it on the frizzen roller an it seems to work fine. I am a little afraid of using it on the internals of the lock because the powder will cake up an make the tumbler malfunction.....just a thoght.....sonny

[Larry Pletcher]

Here are a few photos of the setup and the spreadsheet that includes all the trials:


The trials are in the order of testing left to right.  The "no lube" in the left column is the one in which I felt I did not clean well enough to use. Instead I decided to retest at the end. That trial is on the far right. The times within each trial are in order from top to bottom.  This is probably not as significant as it would be if a flint edge was used.  The range within each trial was wider than I expected.  The exception is in the Ballistol group where the range is significantly smaller than the rest.  It was the slowest in the group also.



This is the overall setup I'm using. 


This pic shows the fixture with the Siler installed.  The orange RCA plug in the forground holds the led emiter, while in the background is the detector (black).  The infrared beam is positioned right above the frizzen.  When the frizzen rises, the beam is broken.


This shows the fixture from the back.  Now the detector is in the forground.  Here you can see the plunger below the sear with a thin brass blade between.  When the plunger pushes the brass against the sear, the contact is made that starts time.


This last pic is the interface.  The glowing green led lets me know that the infrared beam is not broken.

The mention of ultrasonic cleaning sounds interesting.  Using brake parts cleaner sounds good too.  Would the parts cleaner leave a coating that could be removed by alcohol? BTW, I figured alcohol would leave no coating.  Hope that's right.  I should mention that I would use compressed air on the lock until no alcohol was left.  I was surprised to see alcohol coming out of the sear and sear spring screws on the front of the lock plate.
Regards,
Pletch