"zippo" type flinter setup

[WadePatton]

this is probably old news, but i ran across a (Pennsylvania) C/L ad last night for a gimmick that replaces the flint with a roller/flint assembly just like is used to spark a zlppo-type lighter.

it's aimed at the PA crowd asking for folks to write in to support the product as a legal hunting device.

looks like it works dandy-BUT this is the edge of the Slippery Slope.  for the sake of the longrifle, i'd rather not see that adopted.  It's moot here as we have no m/l restrictions.

discuss

[Larry Pletcher]

I videoed one slow motion in 2009 at the spring shoot.  The sparks look very strong, but when watched frame by frame, pan ignition didn't look any better than a good flint.  The reason may be that the trip down the frizzen is slow compared to a flint strike.  I think the video is on my 2009 slow motion stuff
Regards,
Pletch

[Bull Shannon]

I've seen it before and it's been discussed on a number of other muzzle loading forums.  I am sure the inventor put a lot of time and thought into the design not to mention money but I would be against it for inclusion into a traditional/primitive hunting season.

[JDK]

I doubt there is any chance of getting it adopted in Pennsylvania.  Why would a Commonwealth that has the most primitive of muzzleloading seasons allow the adoption of a mechanical firing devise?  Seems silly.

Things change very, very slowly here....the folks here are very, very resistant to change....any change.

Enjoy, J.D.

[Old Bob]

I think they used to call them things wheel locks.

[WadePatton]

Yes, I'd not be in favor of any laws changing-next thing would be a peep sight, then...

Wow, see how far behind i am... Larry, thanks for the research angle. Not that a well-constructed marketing campaign can't completely demolish the Truth*, but that us, who know, will know through work such as you take on.

*We have plenty of that already.

I don't really understand the market except for the guys/gals who are required to use flint, but are just "me too" hunting and not _enthusiasts_ so that they don't understand and they think it would simplify the contraption, but of course it doesn't.

Someday i'll campaign for a "historic" M/L weekend in this state...mebbe. 

AS it were, it is of no further interest to me (until someone digs up an original  ).

[jamesthomas]

 I've seen that thing, and I betcha 20 dollars my flintlock is faster. Large Siler. I will also becha the L&R Bailes lock I'll have on my .40 is faster to. The guy would be better off learning how to knapp Flints an selling them.

[WadePatton]

why would anybody bet against Larry Pletcher's observations? 


oh yeah, that PTBarnum thing...

[Larry Pletcher]

I hunted around trying find the link to the you tube video of this lock.  Here it is -- if the link works:



Watch to see how long it takes for the fire to travel down to the pan. this is part of the reason why it doesn't work as well as they say.  In slow motion of a flint the sparks roll down the frizzen face just below the flint edge.  Another clue is to watch the time it takes before the size of the fire increases. That is when the pan ignites.

I do believe that a good flint is faster.

Regards,
Pletch

[volatpluvia]

I bought one of those thing back in the 70's, when I was just getting started in flintlocks in PA.  since I refuesed to glue the suede on the frizzen it didn't work at all.  I was surprised in watching your video, Pletch, at how much fire it made.  My guess is that the speed with which the little wheel travels down the frizzen is what produces all that fire.  And yes, your videos of flinters shows the sparks being propelled down the frizzen ahead of the flint and being forced into the pan at high speed.
On another note, when I had my wheellock ready to hunt I sent an email to the wild life department in PA and asked when I could use it to hunt.  Even though a wheellock predates the flinter, they said no to the late season flint only season, but yes to the early season where even inlines are allowed.  Go figure.  But to be fair, if they allow one other way of lighting the pan, they just open a can of worms.  And they have had enough trouble maintaining the 'primitive' ignition system over the decades anyway.
volatpluvia

[Don Getz]

This apparatus showed up many years ago and was shot down  by the Pa. Game Commission.   One of the few things
they have done right in a long time..........Don

[bigbat]

don didnt I see you using one of these about 3 years ago at Fort Frederick??   

[WadePatton]

I didn't realize that PA had allowed the other stuff   .  I had heard of the flint/ball/open ever only rule back in them 80's or so.  Thought it was great, but never hunted up there. Haven't been that far up the old #81 trail since then.  (made it to #64 last year though.)

I was just doing a "nationwide" cruise of Craigslist and found duder selling 'em there (in PA) and he had a note in there about "calling your commission" or whatever.  

Solution looking for a problem.  

[zimmerstutzen]

The thing is not legal for deer or bear in pa. But is legal for elk, coyote and small game.