CORRECT ORDER?

[Topknot]

With hunting season about over,I have no excuses left.Its time to start building my first rifle. As ive said before, I have a pre-carved dickert style stock with the barrel , lock, and ramrod pre-inletted. This is my plans , CORRECT ME if Im wrong. #1  Inlet the lock #2  inlet barrel and tang. #3  inlet trigger #4 pin barrel to stock #5  install tang bolt
#6 install lock bolts. Thats as far as i will list at this point.  Hows my plans so far?

                                                                                                                topknot

[Topknot]

Oh, I almost forgot its a large siler percussion lock.

                                                                             topknot

[Long Ears]

IMHO, reverse 1 and 2 then 4 then trigger then #5. Bob

[David Veith]

 The main two that you need to change around is your first two
After you have the barrel in it is a ether or on pinning the barrel.  But I do a lot of my drilling at the same time.
David
 
Order #1 inlet barrel and tang #2  .Inlet the lock  #3   pin barrel to stock#4install lock bolts  #5   tang bolt
#6 . Thats as far as i will list at this point.  Hows my plans so far?inlet trigger install

[Topknot]

DAVID, Thanks for the reply. What im wondering is how will i know that the drum will be in the right place ... in front of the breech plug and also fit in the cut- out of the lock plate snugly if the lock is not in place?

                                                                            topknot

[stuart cee dub]

 I like the fact that you are inletting the lock first with this particular build Topknot .
While some concider this backwards ,I like to get the lock in first IF the lock mortise is precut which in your case it is .
With the lock in ,then I settle the barrel in with the pre installed drum installed into the pre-cut notch in the percussion looking  for excellent physical contact between the drum and the lock notch.

The reason I do it this way is the relationship of the pre-inlet lock mortise is seldom perfect with regards to where the barrel inletting is .Wood is a natural material and may even change from the time it was mortised to the time it ends up on your bench .

I would rather more deeply inlet the barrel or if needed bed it in epoxy to bring it up ,which is more easily disguised, that try to jigger the lock .
The drum in anycase must be fully supported by the notch in the lock .You do not wish the drum to be unsupported as the forces of hammer beating on the drum translates to the  drums  threads in the barrel itself and all that pressure inside when it goes off .Those threads and their long term integrity is critical for your safety and the guy standing on the firing line next to you.
 
If the lock mortice was not cut then I do put the barrel in first.
Flint rifles are (slightly )more forgiving with the touch hole location than percussion guns are regarding drum placement .Also flint locks are not translating potential stress to the barrel as they float next to the touch hole in comparison to the percussion system .

I prefer percussion guns as a shooter but they are a bigger pain to build than a flintlock,more care is required as it is a higher pressure system.
Others may do it differently.
 

[Topknot]

Stuart, thanks for the reply. My thinking is exactly the same as yours and for the same reasons. As you pointed out , building from scratch, the barrel is inletted first.

                                                                                thanks again,

                                                                                                     topknot

[ken]

Barrel goes in first , then tang , install the drum for a percussion, install the lock snug to the drum bolster parallel to the barrel. Take your time and enjoy Ken

[JDK]

Don't inlet that lock full depth until the barrel is in.  With out the barrel in for the lock bolster to rest against you may end up with the lock too deep.

Inlet the lock enough to determine where the center of the drum will fall then inlet the barrel, setting it back for proper drum/lock alignment....then inlet the lock to full depth.

Enjoy, J.D.

[kutter]

BBl & tang first then the lock in my case,,but everyone has their own way.


To get the percussion plate to support the drum perfectly,, think ahead a bit if you're using a plate that has one of the pre-cast drum cutouts in it and get it in place just a few .000" high.

Once inletted secure the bbl & lock plate in place and set them up in a drill press or mill. Carefully use a center point in the chuck or collet to determine exactly where you want the drum to thread into the bbl wall (you may have to do this with the lock plate off if it doesn't have a pre-cut drum cutout)

With an end mill of the diameter of the drum you're using,,mill downward just shaving clean the pre-cut drum cut on the plate (that's why you made it sit a few .000" high) or right down through the plate if it's a blank. Mill down till you just touch the bbl. You don't want to mill into the side of the bbl.

With the set up still in place and undisturbed,,change to a center drill and then drill and tap the bbl for the drum. Do it all on the machine even the tapping operation (w/o power of course!)

Now the cut-out in the plate and the threads in the bbl for the drum will be in perfect position and the drum is fully supported. Looks nice too. No gaps around the drum and plate.

[Acer Saccharum]

Help me here, did Mark Elliott post a building sequence not too long ago?

Tom

[Mark Elliott]

Dr. Tim put it in the Tutorials.    You can switch up the order of a lot of things, but 1-Barrel, 2-Lock, 3-Trigger, and 4-Butt piece are not ones that can be switched about.   I could also put Design and Layout before it all.   Once all those things are done, everything else falls into place.      This stuff is so basic,  maybe it should be in a banner at the top of the Gun Building forum, or put it on a t-shirt or poster.

[Topknot]

Thanks to all who have responded. Much obliged.

                                                            topknot

[Mark Elliott]

Some might think I don't have enough to do.

[rich pierce]

On precareves with a lock inlet it is advised to inlet the lock most of the way first as it cannot be re-positioned much, if at all.  Then you see if the barrel needs to be set back, set in deeper etc. so the touchhole or drum is in the right position.  Especially advised with a percussion setup.

[davebozell]

I agree with Rich.  On my recent precarve, I had to go back and reset the barrel because the lock position was too far forward.  There are youtube videos posted here that show how to deal with a precarved stock.  They are very good at explaining the basics of a precarved build.  He ran into the same problem and had to move the barrel back to get the lock and barrel positioned properly. 

[Topknot]

Thanks Rich and Dave for your input. You both confirmed what I was thinking, but really wasnt 100% sure.

                              Thanks guys.

                                           topknot

[Jim Kibler]

Though it's typical to build in the order of barrel inlet, lock, trigger, butplate, it's just one option.  The idea of doing the lock and trigger directly after the barrel is just simply to aid in locating the butplate for a specific trigger pulll.  It's not too muich of a task to take a few measurements and locating the trigger position with a pencil mark, and using this to position the butplate.  I think some of the guys for Williamsburg like to get the but plate installed and the butstock roughly shaped prior to inletting the lock.  With this method the lock position relative the the wrist etc. can be controlled a little easier.  Lots of options as to order.  The key is to understand what your trying to accomplish.

[JDK]

Jim brings up a good point.....LAY IT OUT!  DRAW IN YOUR LINES!  I see too many guns posted "in progress" with no pencil marks on them.  To me, that's just winging it.  You have to know where you are going if your going to get there in an orderly fashion and avoid the corners we tend to back ourselves in to.

You can't take it on faith that the "pre-inlets" are done correctly.  Before attempting to build on any stock...or blank for that matter....the ramrod hole location should be verified and drawn on the side of the stock, as well as the barrel bottom.  Breech plug depth should be verified, and so on.

Even on a "kit" it can't be "assumed" that it can be "snapped" together as provided.  The barrel may need to go deeper, be set back more, the ram rod channel and hole may need adjustment, etc.

I'll pass the soap box now.  Enjoy, J.D.

[Don Getz]

It is rare for me to build a "cap" gun, but all of this assembly requires a little planning.   Since the lock and barrel are already inlet, I would first measure where the front of the breech plug lies, and mark it.  You could then indicate on the
barrel where the drum should be placed.  I would then place the lock at the proper spot and see how this will work with
the spot where the drum will go.  Hopefully, the barrel will be slightly forward of where it has to be, much easier to remove wood to move it back.   If the barrel inlet is too far back, not sure, maybe accraglas, swear, etc.  Assuming the
barrel and lock inlets are pretty close, I would then go ahead and inlet the barrel and tang, then the lock.  It is much
easier to locate and drill and tap for the drum.  I normally would remove the clean out screw in the end of the drum and
place it in the recess in the lock.   Then insert a drill or some other pointed object that wil go down thru the hole in the
drum, and, holding the drum down in the lock cut-out for it, give it a tap to find the center on the barrel.  You can then
drill and tap for the drum.  Sorry, it took me almost as long to type this as it would to install the drum.....Don

[Captchee]

 If you were working on a piece that did not have the lock inlet yet then yes its advisable to inlet the barrel then the lock . But with pre-carves that have the lock  cut in , its advisable to inlet the lock plate  as this will set the location of the bolster or flash hole .
 Then do as Don suggests and  measure the bore for the  bolster  or flash hole . Then set that to fit the correct location on the lock .
 If you don’t , your very likely to find that the face of the breech plug is well forward of  the required location  for the bolster of flash hole  on the lock .

[Topknot]

I want to thank all of you gentlemen who have responded. You are a great bunch of guys. It confirms what I had been thinking, but wanted to hear opinions first since this is
my first build. your answers have given me more confidence as to my approach. Your opinions are disired , and tremendously appreciated. Thanks to all of you.                                                                                     

                                                                                                                         topknot