S. Hawken Cast Off?

[nvandal]

Hello Folks,
I've scoured the archives and can't seem to come up with an answer. Do S. Hawken half stock rifles haye cast off? Particularly the plains rifles?
I have an S. Hawken sporting rifle that doesn't, but it's a late gun with mahogany stock,
I though I would call Jim Gordon, but decided I'd try here first,
Hershel House put cast off on the gun he builds in the video, but he never says it was noted on any original guns.
Thanks much,
Norm Vandal
Roxbury, VT

[rsells]

My recommendation is to contact Don Stith.  He should be able to answer the question.  Don checks the ALR now and again and may answer the question here.  If not you can search him on the net and send him a note to his email address he has on his web page. 
                                                     Roger Sells

[David Rase]

Norm,
There is no cast off in the Hershel House Hawken.
David

[nvandal]

David,
When Hershel is fitting the buttplate he establishes new center lines based on " the cast off. " He mentions it more than once. However, it's pretty confusing as to how much, etc. I just watched this section only, but I'll have to watch the entire video to see if he mentions it elsewhere. Funny thing is that he uses the term, but I don't really see it.
Well...if someone knows everything, then everything must be known! I spend a good deal of time clearing up my confusion.
Thanks,
Norm Vandal

[Don Stith]

You have an email

[smylee grouch]

I would think that there are some originals with and without cast off.  I wonder if you would need any cast off on a Hawken with its somewhat narrow butt plate that you would shoot off the arm.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I do not have much experience with original Hawken rifles, but that doesn't stop me from having an opinion.  Ha!!

The design of the butt stock of S. Hawken rifles does not need any castoff.  The drop at the comb and at the heel makes the rifle come to eye perfectly without having cast off.  If, however, your wood is on the thin side, you can put in some cast off to get a little heavier cheek piece, though that too is a lot thinner than one might think.  It does not rise off the stock as much as a lot of Pennsylvania longrifles.   If you have a board thick enough to carry the 1 1/8" + barrel, plus the .300" thick lock bolster and the matching wood on the off side, there'll be lots of wood for a cheek piece without cast off.

[Dave B]

Norm, I have personally held the rifle in question and know The owner of the Hawken rifle Herschel built  in the video. He is a pretty good authority on it not having cast off. There is no question about him talking about it in the portion discussing the position of the butt plate but when it was all said and done Herschel built it with out cast off. You also don't see it done in the video but the trigger guard was hand forged by Herschel though he shows the cast trigger guard with the parts for the rifle in the begining of his talk.

[Don Stith]

Norm
 Make it to fit yourself or whoever you are building it for. Just about any detail you want to pick on, you can probably find at least one that will be different in that characteristic. The few I have worried about whether they had cast or not; had more cast in the toe than in the comb.. They fit your arm better that way too. There are a few characteristics pointed out in that video that I have never seen on an original.  That is a whole different story. Just enjoy the build.