flintlock deer season so far in pennsylvania

[sonny]

ok.........everybody knows that the game commission is still saying there are too many deer.....or should i say doe......an we as hunters need to harvest more!!!!!...........well brother!,let me tell you this.The day is coming when you will stop the car to look at a deer in a field because  there won't be huntable numbers anymore.I know i will get answers from people telling me i don't walk far enough,or i don't know how to hunt,or they went hunting on game lands an saw 35 deer before lunch time.BULL!!!Unless you hunt private lands with large acreage ,an the owner say's no doe hunting you will see very very few if any deer. I have just hunted on three different game lands here in northeaster pa an have a news update for everyone.There are no huntable numbers of deer left in many game lands in the northeast.I know everyone see's it.The number of hunters going out are fewer every year....why???It's not worth going hunting after paying for hunting tags an permits,50 dollars in fuel, an also loosing a days wages to sit frozen on your keaster in beautiful northeastern pa deer hunting.who's with me on this?The hurting economy is hard on deer also.Fill the freezer is the new battle cry.....let the next guy past them up! if it's brown it's down.I believe if we go back to one deer, in any choosen season, an your finished deer hunting for that year,we might after 10 years ,start to revive the deer holocaust survivors for future generations.I bet half the young people ready to hit hunting age won't enter out sport.They are not only bored sitting all season,year after year an never seeing anything,but also don't want to be the last one to nail the deer hunting coffin shut.well's gone dry boys!just sit back an prepare an answer,so when your grandkids ask,"what happened to you deer",the answer was the same as what happened to the  buffalo..........hunter extermination.........sonny

[George F.]

I am not a hunter, never learned how for one, and another, I can't take the cold  anymore. But I've noticed over the years that a sign of deer population is how many you find on the side of the Highways or smeared over the pavement. Just my observation since I don't venture in the woods...Geo.

[long carabine]

Very few hunters out on opening day of rifle season in Erie Co. I saw 3 running full tilt and couldn't shoot. Saw a buck and doe yesterday about 100 yds away in the woods.

[JBlk]

We are going through the same nonsense here in Illinois.The politicans who control our herd are using the herd as their cash cow.With in the last five years I have seen a big reduction in the number of does, yet they continue to issue numerous permits for their destruction.When they first established the deer season in the Early sixties you rarely saw a deer.With in the last five years it was not unusual for me to sit in a tree stand near a cornfield and see twenty plus does around sunset.I no longer see those herds, even though nothing has changed in the habitat or the hunting pressure.

[Old Ford2]

Deer populations vary from one location to another.
In suburbs where tree huggers and bambi nuts own 5 to 10 acres deer populations will explode, and the deer will be involved in car collisions.
Then insurance companies put pressures on authorities to increase deer limits.
But the only land available is a few acres open to the public, resulting in over hunting the few deer in that area.
I live in Ontario, Canada. The deer population near the larger cities has exploded.
There is no control on their numbers.
Years ago, if you saw a deer, you would stop and admire it for it's beauty, today they are like rats, and dangerous in the evening ( for collisions with cars)
And of course, you cannot discharge a firearm within city limits.
At one time Pennsylvania was the "Mecca" for deer hunting, it was nothing at all to see twenty deer in a field in the evening. ( Now we got'em)
Pardon my long winded story.
Old Ford

[northmn]

I know the feeling as I ran into the same thing this year in Minnesota. You could buy a license and permits to shoot up to 5 deer in some areas.  In talking to other deer hunters, they had the same experience as I did.  They did not see deer like they did last year.  We had herds in the NW where there was intensive harvest as the deer were said to have Bovine Tuberculosis which was blamed on over population.  I blame some of it on the fact that we had a more severe winter last winter with a later thaw.  My daughter only shot one deer where she usually gets two and got what she saw.  My brother in law, where my daughter hunts, has a deer heaven and got his deer but had to work more for them.  They did not come out to the hay fields like normal in the mornings or evenings.  While I should have had at least two deer, I did not see them like normal and they did not come out to my fields either.  I expect next year will be more like the earlier days as this winter's getting pretty bad with early heavy snows.  I think the permit fees have given the DNR a certain degree of lifestyle they do not want to get unaccustemed to. 

DP

[ottawa]

here in ohio the bow season runs from late sept to feb gun season is 7 days then a short couple days break then a nother weekend  and you get a hole 3 days for muzle loader they say the same thing the deer are getting out of hand and on privet land this may bee true i doubt that is the prob on state game land as you cant look  in any direction and see nothing but orange as crowded as state land is it would even be safe to hunt with that many ppl in the wood if you where using a bow

[billd]

Hey Sonny,   Let me know where you hunted so I know where not to go.

Bill

[sonny]

ok..........good,we are all on the same page!..........the way to fix the problem is not to kill the giant,but starve the giant.Just like the american revolution against the british.They can win a battle but lose the war if we make it cost so much to fight,that it isn't worth having.We as hunters must take the next step an boycott bonus tags or any magical doe permits the game commission cares to call them.We will also have to guard against outsiders coming in an doing the dirty work for them.....namely the out of staters!!!Yes the people who only want to fill tags an not care about the deer annilation,because they can find another state for deer when this one runs dry!!!! look out new york,the worm will take a turn.We must post everything with ,"no doe hunting" an make it stick.Arrest the people when temptation an insolence drive them into hunting frenzy for doe.Slam the door shut when they want to "lease your land for a few dollars".DEER BLOOD MONEY!.when that won't work anymore,They will have no recourse but the sacrafical lands promised them.....GAME LAND!When that well runs dry.It has!! They won't buy doe tags,it's not worth it.  the game commission will probably say somthing at that time like...."ok,the herd is now in balance ,so we will go back to the one deer per hunter harvest,an reduce the two week doe season...i mean buck season/ha ha, with the good enough three day limited permit sales doe tag,after the general season.The price on the permits will go up to be sure,but we as true caretakers of the deer can adjust that with the new strenght of hunters united in a common cause to preserve our deer heritage......If we look away now,When you turn later to look back it will be too late...they are gone.........sonny

[sonny]

billd..........How many did you see so far???Not counting private land hunts!..sonny

[Roger Fisher]

Hey Terry: Why don't you let us know how you REALLY feel!

[acorn20]

The few deer we saw Saturday were about a foot off the ground with the after-burners on.  If the wind circles around and they get a whiff, their gone!  They've been pushed and shot at so much by the moron neighbors, that still hunting or stalking is just about out of the question.  Some of the deer management areas didn't have doe season until the second week of the season.  I'd like to see doe season the way it used to be; three days after the two week buck season.

Dan

[Dphariss]

I live in Montana and the populations cycles. Over population always leads to a crash.When we have lots of deer they hunt the heck out of them.
We lost a lot of Deer and Antelope north of here to Bluetongue a viral disease carried by midges.
In 2007 a friend found over one dead WT per acre on his 40 +- acres on the Musselshell.
It has a very high mortality in WT, 50% or so, and Antelope about the same I think. Don't know about MD have heard they tolerate it better but where I hunt MD does were scarce this year.  From hay field counts down maybe 30-40%. Out on public land there were almost more bucks than does. Last year was bad this year worse. Far less deer at the beginning of 2008 season than at the end of the 2007 season so I cannot lay it all on hunters. I know places that did heavy harvests on WT for years and had no drop in population till the Bluetongue outbreak.
Warm falls are said to be increasing the MD deaths from tape worm or some such. But this is rumor.

So you might start asking wildlife biologists about the reduction in deer numbers to see if it is disease related and if the doe season needs to be curtailed in some areas.
http://www.ohiovalleyoutdoors.com/dentdeer.htm
Reports EHD in deer in states around PA. This might be part of the problem or even all of it.

Dan

[sonny]

roger ol pal...........I am so burned up with this political bull about the deer herd balance by the college geek's that don't even get out there an look,it makes me spit fire.Ok rodger..how many deer did you see on private property this season?.....sonny

[Roger Fisher]

roger ol pal...........I am so burned up with this political bull about the deer herd balance by the college geek's that don't even get out there an look,it makes me spit fire.Ok rodger..how many deer did you see on private property this season?.....sonny

Private Property!  Penn Haven Mt 10 first day of rifle season,  1 the first Sat and 0 the 2nd Sat.  My buddy saw 8 the last Sat.  We got one 3 pt one horner the first day!

I got orders not to hunt alone on the snow and ice.  So we are heading out tomorrow for snowshoes 4 old guys and an old arthritic hound dog.  I plan to do some sneak hunting with my jaeger after the 1st of Jan,.   

Really don't give a hoot if I don't shoot a deer.  Actually I figure I 'harvested' enough deer in my day!  If I took a buck from my mt top tree stand hunting alone they might find me in spring stuck to a pull rope and a very dead deer. 

As you know the deer draw in to the built up areas.   Food and Cover and no pressure= gangs of deer!

[Daryl]

I'd rather have too many deer than wolves.

[sonny]

rodger..........it seem's you have a small trickle of deer life there so guard it from shooting everything thats around.It might be the seeds of deer life for all the rest of us to have some day.........rodge somehow i think you have too much rum in your eggnog!!!!........he he he.........sonny

[billd]

I've known Sonny for a very long time, I live about 20 miles from him and although we don't hunt together, we hunt the same areas.  He is 100% correct in saying the deer are almost gone.  However I don't believe it's 100% due to hunters.

My question is where are all the fawns?  By the middle of summer and archery season I see adult doe with one or no fawns. In spring gobbler season and trout fishing I see 2 or 3 fawns with almost every doe.  I have three resident deer near my house, 2 doe and a yearling. It's a developement so there's no hunting. Last spring I had seven, 3 adults and 4 fawns.  Where are they?

Christmas eve I saw 6 deer in a developement about 5 miles from mine while visiting friends. 4 were adults, only 2 were yearlings.

I have friends who hunt private property and they are noticing the same.  I even was discussing this with Fred Miller last week. Fred has a farm, I don't know how big, but he said the same, there's no fawns any more.  

People I work with are die hard bear hunters, GL 57, Forkston, Dutch Mountain, places where you have to walk several hard miles to hunt. No doe hunter is going in the places these guys hunt. Guess what, very few deer and no fawns do they see. This year they saw more bear and bear sign than deer or deer sign.  One guy left his trail cam on for a week this past summer over looking a food plot up the Noxen railraod bed and didn't get one deer picture.

How about it Sonny, notice the same trends where your at?  Coyote, bear or aliens?

Bill

[Jim Thomas]

I recall my father telling me of a commission meeting back in the 1930's.   They were explaining the plan to seed this area with deer from Michigan in the hope of establishing a deer herd.

Old photos taken prior to this time show that this area was clear cut.   I mean every tree on every mountain had been  removed.    This was due to the lumber and tanning industries.   

The game commission stated that the habitat here was becoming ideal for whitetail.  But, in years to come as the forests grew, our big game would become  wild turkey and black bear.   Here in Tioga county, with our thousands of acres of state forest and game lands,  we are witnessing that transition.  I'm not sure if the ride has been all scientific.    I have wondered if the game commission knew what it was doing more times than not....but here we are at the destination they predicted way back when.   

Private land still holds a number of doe, but the the idea to post private land against doe hunting works as long as those deer don't get into a farmers field.   They'll be shot on a wholesale level if the numbers are large.   The idea works only to a point and then you've defeated yourself.     

But hey! I'm with the rest of you. I'm frustrated with the deer situation.   Maybe I'm just spoiled.  I know I have been very fortunate to see the days I have.   







 



 

   

 

   

   

 

[Brian Bussard]

I grew up in Beaver County, on the extreme western side of Pa, and during the early 70's when I was first went deer hunting, there were more occasions when we wouldnt see deer than when we would. Guys going to the "mountain" counties would see herds of anywhere from 30-50 deer at a time. I witnessed it myself in '76 outside of Brookville....deer after deer running by, but all doe and small spikes.... I remember thinking to myself "Boy, for all the trees, these woods are sure open alot"....I had never seen browse lines before

Well that was the last time I hunted anywhere other than Beaver County. Seemed like a lot of guys who had camps in Jefferson, Elk, Potter counties sold their camps and hunted close to home after the late 70's.

Fast forward to the mid '80's...I could pretty much count on seeing deer every time I went out. This lasted until the mid-to-late 90's. I still see quite a few deer, and most times I see at least one, but not always. What I am noticing now is that the deer I am seeing are bigger-bodied, and have bigger racks than I have seen before. Is part of it antler restrictions? Probably. Part of it herd reduction? Probably, as well.

Speaking strictly for myself, I would much rather only see one or two deer, but both of them be fat healthy deer, whether shooters or not, than to see 30 small scraggly ones just to be seeing deer.

I do hunt private ground, but it is next to State Game Lands.

Not coming down on one side or the other, just reporting my observations. I have never hunted in the Poconos so I cant speak to conditions there. Just seems like if there is food and cover, there will be deer eventually...

[sonny]

bill that is exactly what we see at dutch mtn lopez area.Very few doe a few small buck(that's the whole season of general hunting two weeks),an bear sign all over.My friend shot a bear as a matter of fact on first day.In the end of november general hunting two week deer season,we saw two doe between 4 guys deep in huckleberry swamps.When hunters were only allowed one deer a season we would see 25 to 30 deer before lunch time.Our deer arn't sick!They arn't starving! the general hunter will kill a doe an go home before passing anything waiting for the buck!..coyote killing fawns.thank you game commission for introducing them into our woods.Yes when the doe have there young in the spring, you can see coyote working grassy fields looking for baby fawns...Now they want to introduce wolves back......what are they nutts???We cannot rely on the game commission for help here.We must preserve whats left an hope they wake up from there cash sickness.......post no doe hunting an go back to three day doe season,one deer in any season an your finished.Anybody 50 or older will never see deer like we did in the 70's.But we can start working it back for the younger guys to have somthing....right?......sonny

[sonny]

brian..............did you ever see a food plot on game lands with anything but wild grass.........You never see a track of deer on a food plot....i never did.You want big healthy deer an nice racks?keep on with the 3 point antler restricted program.....i agree with this!,but to say that the deer consummed our woodland fields an forest to the point of poor deer health is balony!.....why don't they show deer hunting on television,like they do on southern channels,here in the northeast?never because it would cost too much an take too long to trick you into believing there is game on anything but private lands.........believe your eyes brian,look at whats left out there........In 40 years of hunting i never shot a starving skinny deer in northeastern pa..........sonny

[Tom Currie]

Deer managment is a tough thing to figure out. In Michigan it's very unbalanced. Tons of deer on the private land in the lower half of the state ( probably 60-80/per sq mile ) and very little population in the traditional public state forest hunting lands up north. The Dept of Natural Resources wants deer reduced in the southern half but how do you do that on private land when hunters can't get access ? and you can't hunt near many small towns and developments ? Deer aren't stupid. They go away from the pressure.

Somebody mentioned hunting shows on TV. What a joke. I can't stand watching some guy in Texas, hunting out of a small hut/cabin/fort, ALWAYS on managed land, over a bait pile, with a pot of coffee on, eating lunch, smoking a cigarette, with a rifle that'll shoot 2 miles getting exicted over a buck he shot that he couldn't even see without a spotting scope. One show had this guy who had his 10 year old grandson pull the trigger on a rifle that was fixed on a table and then the grandson went back to playing with his GI Joe. The kid had no idea of the impact of taking a life.

I figure there are about 10 % of men who hunt, 10% anti hunters and 80 % who don't care either way. I worry about the 80% who see this garbage on TV and are so turned off they are pushed towards the anti hunters.

I'm done.

[Daryl]

Around here, lack of deer and especially fawns and moose calves means lots of wolves.  How's the coyote and red-wolf situation in Penn.? they were moving East apparently, as noted by some of the Eastern hunters on anothe forum.

[billd]

The coyote gets a well deserved bad rap, but here's another one to think over......... About 10 years ago in early summer, my uncle was working for one of the state branches of forestry.  Himself and another workier were in Hickory Run State park doing a survey along the Lehigh River. They heard what the thought was a women screaming very close. They said later it was the loudest thing they ever heard in the woods.  They both took off towards the screams to help this women and ran right into a bear with a fawn in it's mouth, still alive and screaming. The bear ran away when it saw the men but never dropped the fawn.

Bill