Cherokee powder horn photos wanted

[Larry Luck]

I'm about to start a powder horn for a Cherokee friend of a friend.  Are there any photos of Cherokee-used horns?  Probably difficult things to find, but I thought the brain trust might know.

Thanks,

Larry Luck

[jrb]

Hi Larry, here's one i bet you'll like ? if you haven't seen it. You can click on the photo to zoom in, too.

http://www.splendidheritage.com/nindex.html

The site won't let me link to the exact page, but you just have to choose "powderhorn" for the catagory, then "southeast" for region, then click "display" over near left of page.

John

I don't think it was made by a Cherokee, but it has some really fascinating engravings of them.

[mr. no gold]

Noted arms authority, Berkely Lewis, who wrote numerous gun artlces for the American Rifleman Magazine many years ago, had a beautiful Southern horn with what he thought to be one of the earliest beaded straps known. The horn was engraved with the plan of a fort, along with a map of the major landmarks and Cherokee towns existing then. I saw it only once and that was 50 years ago. I recall that two of the towns depicted were Cowetchee and Estato. I don't recall the others now. Fifty years of mental wear and tear, no doubt. 
Later, the horn was shown in an Arizona Highways Magazine article, on early trade beads, written by Cloyd Sorenson. You might be able to find that somewhere if the idea interests you.
Failing that, a map horn of the known towns might be a real winner, if you don't find an actual horn to follow. There should be no scaricity of maps of the Cherokee County in the 1700s.
The Lewis horn was eventually sold when he passed away and its whereabouts today is not known.
Best of luck-Dick

[Larry Luck]

John and Dick,

Thank you for the suggestions.  I've downloaded the photos that John sent the link to.  Dick, your challenge is a little stiffer!  But thank you to you both.

Larry

[T.C.Albert]

thats not the same horn you both mentioned is it?
Thats a pretty early "beaded" or wampum strap with a 1971 Arizona Highways provenance too, which a check of the index for that year shows was the Sorensen article.
Just wondering..but it must be the same one.
tc

[mr. no gold]

T. C. you nailed it. That is the horn. Thanks for having a better memory than I have. For a lot of reasons, that is one of the best horns in existence.  I did hear some time ago that it was last seen up in the New England area in the hands of a collector who paid a ransom for it when such sold for much less. A number of map horns have surfaced which have beaded straps, but not as fine as this.
It was said that Lewis loaned the horn to the State of NC or GA to assist in the excavation and rebuilding of the fort shown on the horn. Apprarently it was found to be a pretty acccurate plan of the structure. Can't remember the name of the fort though.
Dick

[art riser]

I've never seen A Cherokee decorated horn. This is a link to a NA horn, but wrong tribe.  http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/search?q=mark+odle

If your friend is Cherokee the Grant expedition horn that you pulled pictures of might be offensive to him and the Creek treaty horn would not be something a Cherokee would want unless he killed the Creek or the white that more than likely owned it.

NA Mike Galbin could be of help.  He may know where to direct you.

[jrb]

Although not Cherokee, another one that you might be interested  in and try to find is the Seth Hill horn. I saved a photo and a sketch someone had made of the scrimshaw a few years ago from the internet, but the site no longer exists to give a link to. I think this horn might be shown in one of the newer powderhorn books?
He was a Mohawk, so north of your interest, but about the right timeframe you're looking at.
I don't know if he made or scrimshawed it, but he must have used it.
Engraved is "Seth Karenharegowagh His Powder Horn 177?"
(I can't read the last number on the date.)
There's a map of lake Erie and a small unlabled fort which i guess is Detroit, and an astarisc like symbol that's way to the east, maybe Ft. Niagara?
A stylised British coat of arms with a crowned lion to the left and a unicorn to the right, plants and flowers, a horse with a rider holding a curved sword, a spear in the other hand sticking into a dragon's mouth.
The horn has the "lobed" style shape at the big end's edge, with 2 holes for a strap and at the spout end area a grooved band.
The plug end has lots of domed round metal tacks apparently holding it in place.
I'm not sure if the tacks were originally on the horn when it was first made though or maybe added at a later time?



Art just made a great point about the first horn and i suppose possibly any native made object.
This Seth Hill horn i just was trying to describe was owned by a Mohawk and they did'nt aparently always get along with southern groups and i did'nt mean to suggest copying any symbols directly, in case they have a meaning we don't know. Just an example probably used by a Native American.
At the Frontierfolks forum there are several guys that study the Southeast, but ...

John

[Majorjoel]

Larry, I just received the Muzzle Blasts magazine for Feb. and in it is a part one artice On Ambuscade at Sittico. These obscure names did nothing for me until I started reading and found pictured is a map drawing of the Cherokee Country showing the Overhill Cherokee towns along the Little Tenessee River. This map also includes names of principle headmen of each town and how many warriors each can muster in time of war. Map is from Henry Timberlake 1762.   It would make a great "original" contemporary one of a kind powder horn!

[art riser]

http://books.google.com/books?id=ZPVEos7PKIgC&pg=PA66&lpg=PA66&dq=cherokee+powder+horn&source=bl&ots=J4IoArXLt7&sig=FmbbvUQAeB1_GLkWlOplqTBiA4U&hl=en#v=onepage&q=cherokee%20powder%20horn&f=false

[Dennis Glazener]

I've never seen A Cherokee decorated horn.

I agree, I have seen two, one of them belonged to a Cherokee Chief. The horn and the linen bag with it were as plain as could be. The other one was also plain, no markings at all. The horn/bag is on display at the Macon County NC historical society museum. The other is/was in the Cherokee museum in Cherokee NC.
Dennis

[Larry Luck]

Guys,
I really appreciate the responses.  The depth of knowledge available on ALR continues to amaze me.
Thank you.
Larry Luck