Author Topic: Stock removal method, axe head.  (Read 8986 times)

gizamo

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Stock removal method, axe head.
« on: January 28, 2013, 03:14:33 AM »
Using the stock removal process to make a new belt axe head. It started out as a shingling hatchet from around the turn of the 1900's.   It measures 6 inches over the top with a 3" bit.  Always liked the look of the axe found near Fort Miegs. Also, the Virginia polled axe that was found in the wall of a 1750 house.  Kinda blended the two together.



« Last Edit: January 28, 2013, 03:15:26 AM by gizamo »

Offline pathfinder

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Re: Stock removal method, axe head.
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2013, 11:32:31 PM »
No offence,but still kinda looks like a shingling hammer. I guess the rounded top and the area on the bottom where the haft comes through being round is what is doing that. perhap's if the bottom comes to a point where the haft exit's,and making the top a bit flatter........... Otherwise,good workmanship.    Ps,besides being made of "metal" what is the common thread with a "typical" Fort Miegs axe,and the one that's posted here? I'm not an expert by any means,so I may be missing something.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 04:20:17 AM by pathfinder »
Not all baby turtles make to the sea!  Darwinism. It’s works!

gizamo

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Re: Stock removal method, axe head.
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2013, 12:08:58 PM »
Pathfinder,...

Gotta chuckle out of your post. The shingling hatchet started with the pointed shape at the bottom of the  eye....I   rounded them. ;D

The so called Meigs axe features that curved profile top that you mention.



The Virginia polled axe has the bottom of the eye rounded and the squared off poll. Blade is flared out.

« Last Edit: January 30, 2013, 03:16:10 AM by gizamo »

Offline Luke MacGillie

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Re: Stock removal method, axe head.
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2013, 01:56:46 PM »
Both of them Axes you posted are modern repros, made in modern manners(Cast) of axes with dubious heratige.

There are a number of books on period axes, but none of them are perfect, as they all contain more than one artifake.  Knowing what is worthy of trying to copy is half the battle......


gizamo

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Re: Stock removal method, axe head.
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2013, 03:35:02 PM »
Both of them Axes you posted are modern repros, made in modern manners(Cast) of axes with dubious heratige.

There are a number of books on period axes, but none of them are perfect, as they all contain more than one artifake.  Knowing what is worthy of trying to copy is half the battle......



Couldn't agree with you more, Luke.

I see the Meigs axe most events. Sometimes 3-4 of them on different participants in the same group.  Once in awhile a couple of the Virginia axes.  I wanted a hunting/camp axe that was unique...and nor for living history demos or reenacting. Also wanted a forged axe with a poll that was meant for pounding and a bit to keep it sharp.  So a $5 thrift shop find got a makeover...

 ;D

Offline pathfinder

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Re: Stock removal method, axe head.
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2013, 06:25:51 PM »
The angle of the cutting edge in relation to the handle will be "kicking" the head back toward's you.

If you've ever used the artifake Ft.Miegs axe,you'l discover that the axe wasn't "lost" or "forgotten" or "Missplaced",but thrown AWAY! Good for taking the leg's off squirrle's and that's about it. Guy's wearing them kinda make me grin. To each his own.
Not all baby turtles make to the sea!  Darwinism. It’s works!

beaudro

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Re: Stock removal method, axe head.
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2013, 07:53:20 PM »
don't know if this helps, and this is not my thing but ... http://www.geocities.com/old_lead/oops.htm scroll down to the Meigs article.
   The "Fort Meigs Belt Axe."

 Many vendors carry this neat little item, often with the descriptor that it is copied from an axe “found at Fort Meigs.” One such description reads: “is a copy of an early hunter's belt axe found at the site of Fort Meigs.”

Other descriptive discussions indicate that the axe was issued to American soldiers during the War of 1812 (perhaps an extrapolation of the Fort Meigs association.) Many woodsrunning and War of 1812 reenactors carry this axe based on these descriptions. Their comments generally note that while the axe is lightweight and very portable, it is simply too light for anything other than very modest chopping chores. Practically no one has questioned its provenance.

There’s just one problem. Fort Meigs State Memorial at Perrysville, Ohio reports it has no artifact like the “Fort Meigs Belt Axe” in its collection!

Retired Illinois State Blacksmith James Patton first brought to my attention the lack or artifact or other provenancial association with Fort Meigs. Other investigators have weighed in to confirm this assertion. Researcher Randy Wolfe wrote: “There is an ‘original,’ was found on the Maumee not actually at Ft M, currently owned by Jim Johnson. Ft Meigs does have, in its collection, an axe (full sized not belt) that is a scaled up version of the 'Meigs Axe'. After years of research, I haven’t found any other originals that match the shape and weight of the so-called "Ft Meigs Axe".

If there is no provenance for this hatchet as being from Fort Meigs, what exactly IS this tool?

One answer may be found in the late Dr. Carl Russell’s Firearms, Traps, and Tools of the Mountain Men. On pages 264-5, Dr. Russell described the tool as a “Kentucky” model ax “with a fourteen inch handle; the blade is about 5 inches long, with a cutting edge of 1 7/8 inches.” He noted that while original specimens are rare, one documented example was attributed to General Samuel Hopkins, circa “late eighteenth century,” in the collection of the Audubon Museum, Henderson, Kentucky. The line illustration of General Hopkins’ axe very strongly favors the so-called “Fort Meigs belt axe” found in reenacting supplier's catalogs.

Dr. Russell continued: “The Kentucky Model… continued in favor all through the fur trade days…” He recorded several merchants--including the fur-trading post at present-day Milwaukee, Wisconsin-- that either purchased or looked to purchase such Kentucky or “Yankee” axes from the post-Revolutionary war days through 1845.

CONCLUSION: The “Fort Meigs belt axe” has been incorrectly named because of association with "artifacts" at the historic site of the same name, which reportedly do not exist. According to Dr. Russell, the tool should properly be termed the “Kentucky axe” or the "Kentucky belt axe.”


Offline bluenoser

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Re: Stock removal method, axe head.
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2013, 07:57:37 PM »
The angle of the cutting edge in relation to the handle will be "kicking" the head back toward's you.

If you've ever used the artifake Ft.Miegs axe,you'l discover that the axe wasn't "lost" or "forgotten" or "Missplaced",but thrown AWAY! Good for taking the leg's off squirrle's and that's about it. Guy's wearing them kinda make me grin. To each his own.

An excellent observation - but I wouldn't conclude the axe was made that way.  Over the years, I have seen many axes that have evolved into such an angle.  The toe of the cutting edge is more susceptable to damage than is the heel.  As a result, the toe often requires more aggressive sharpening.  If the person doing the sharpening isn't careful to do a balanced job, the result, over time, can be what we are seeing.

I think that, when examining any artifact, we should consider what it might have been subjected to during the course of it's useful life and how that may have affected what we see today.

Gizamo,  I commend you on the quality of your work.  However, I fear you copied a badly sharpened or worn out axe.  Whether or not it was a fake, I have no idea.

Laurie

gizamo

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Re: Stock removal method, axe head.
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2013, 03:57:56 AM »
The angle of the cutting edge in relation to the handle will be "kicking" the head back toward's you.

Can you explain how you determined that relationship, as there is no "handle" shown ?  Curious about what you meant by it "kicking" the head back...


Offline pathfinder

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Re: Stock removal method, axe head.
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2013, 04:06:03 AM »
Thanks for the disertation Beaudro! that was very informative and precise without any added B.S.!

that Ft. Miegs axe will certainly be an interesting discussion 200 years from now when our ansestors try to figure out what the heck  ;Dwe were doing!
Not all baby turtles make to the sea!  Darwinism. It’s works!

Offline pathfinder

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Re: Stock removal method, axe head.
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2013, 04:48:32 AM »
Not my first rodeo,you can pretty much see how the handle will go thru. This ISN'T meant to "take apart" your work,as I stated before,the workmanship is very good. The attention to detail is good. but comparing it to known examples is just a little suspect,and I am familiar with "artistic license"being an antique restorer for over 50 years.

The angle between the edge and handle is too severe. That doesn't mean it's not a nice axe. It's just that if you claimit's a "blend' of the 2 styles,I personaly dont see it.

There was a gun on a different forum a few years ago that the builder said was a "Bench" copy of a particular gun. When I asked what constitutes a "bench" copy,he replied that you have the gun on the bench and you build it just like the gun your going to copy.

I then asked why his was Cherry and not the curly 1/4 sawn maple the original was,the barrel was 4" longer,set triggers instead of a single trigger,different patchbox and a different style lock,outside of that,it was the same gun!

It's stillanice axe,just different. not meant to be mean.
Not all baby turtles make to the sea!  Darwinism. It’s works!

gizamo

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Re: Stock removal method, axe head.
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2013, 01:48:09 PM »
Pathfinder,

Hey, I like the discourse.  ;D

If we all agreed on everything,...this would be a boring forum!...  only through others expressing their opinions, research,  and trial and error - will learning take place.

Hafted and slightly aged...


Offline bluenoser

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Re: Stock removal method, axe head.
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2013, 07:04:05 PM »
Well :o.......I have to eat my words!  Now that it is hafted, the angle of the cutting edge looks just fine to me.

I would like to point something out.  In your first photo, The angle between the face of the head and the cutting edge (straight line between toe and heel)  appears to be well over 90 degrees.  That, combined with my attempt to visualize the orientation of the eye, was the basis for my earlier, and obviously incorrect, impression.  In the photo of the hafted axe, the angle appears to be well under 90 degrees. I suspect the difference has to do with camera angles.  In the end, none of that matters.  I jumped to a conclusion when I should have waited to see the finished axe.

I particularly like the shape and finish of your handle.  The mid-section and butt swells should help make it a comfortable axe to use.  In addition, your grain orientation appears to be perfect.

Congratulations on a job well done.
Laurie

gizamo

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Re: Stock removal method, axe head.
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2013, 08:25:13 PM »
Bluenoser...

Thanks...

Next, it will be getting a leather belt sling. I cut out the patterns this morning. It will be a design based on the Alexander MacKenzie pipe tomahawk sling.

Offline pathfinder

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Re: Stock removal method, axe head.
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2013, 05:44:30 AM »
Without going all "CSI" about it,look's like the angle was "fixed". I'm done with commenting on this piece,It look'sgood,nice work,but I still stand by my word's.
Not all baby turtles make to the sea!  Darwinism. It’s works!

gizamo

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Re: Stock removal method, axe head.
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2013, 12:15:54 PM »
Without going all "CSI" about it,look's like the angle was "fixed". I'm done with commenting on this piece,It look'sgood,nice work,but I still stand by my word's.


"CSI" ... Crime Scene Investigaion,...really?  Nothing was "fixed".... Or changed. That axe head was hafted exactly as shown in the first picture.  

Unbelievable.  I tried to show a different method of approaching a axehead by the stock removal process instead of forging. Something that could be approached in a different manner, by grinding.

That was the threads intent.  







« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 12:38:46 PM by gizamo »