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Author Topic: Original horns?  (Read 9629 times)

Offline pathfinder

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Original horns?
« on: January 31, 2013, 07:37:48 PM »
I recently aquired some thing's from the estate of the son of a long time collecter,Harold Harter from Hasslet,Mi.

There were a box of horn's with the stuff,and one of them was this set of horn's.

Chief Okemos was famous in the Lansing area in the 1800's. From what I gleaned from the inter web,he really wasn't a "great warrior" or anything like that,but was beloved by everybody.

Harold had some rather amazing thing's,and i got there after all the family "vultures" picked thru the "Good Stuff".

Anyway,here's the set. If authentic,cool! If not,they are STILL cool!

« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 07:41:29 PM by pathfinder »
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Offline mr. no gold

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Re: Original horns?
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2013, 07:54:34 PM »
You bet they're cool! Seldom is the whole original horns/measure set seen still intact. Each is very nicely made piece, and the tacks on the large horn set it off very well. The measure is a dandy.  All have a nice old 'glow' from use and age. The history is a nice touch, too since it is so easily lost.
You might want go back to the family and tell them that you would like to buy anything that they decide they no longer want, or stumble across while cleaning out the property. This is good stuff.
Thank you for letting us all have a look. Nice material
Dick
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Offline Kermit

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Re: Original horns?
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2013, 12:54:15 AM »
Who added the leather boot laces?  :-\
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Offline pathfinder

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Re: Original horns?
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2013, 01:56:20 AM »
I'm guessing someone who wanted to hang them for display. Most of the horn's I recived from the estate had the same boot lace "hangers". WAY too short for actual use. None of them had original strap's or attatching method's. One even has the date 1863 "poked" in by a needle along with some other scrim on it.

Again,I have NO provadence or proof as to the authenticy of these item's. They "look" the part anyway.
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gizamo

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Re: Original horns?
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2013, 03:32:36 AM »
Quote from: Kermit on February 01, 2013, 12:54:15 AM
Who added the leather boot laces?  :-\

Wondered " who " and how recently..., myself...
 
 ;D
« Last Edit: February 01, 2013, 03:35:36 AM by gizamo »
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Offline pathfinder

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Re: Original horns?
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2013, 04:29:36 AM »
Really? THAT"S what you see? Never gave the laces much thought. They were there to display the horn's on a wall that Harold had them on. He more than likley put them along with the other 12 horn's that I was able to get. At one time there were well over 300 horn's displayed in his gun room. The photo's the family had showed Harold in his room. It looked like the monochrome pictures from the '40's or '50's.

Like I stated before, I can only guaranetee that they are at least 1.5 years old. That's how long I've had them.

I couldn't think of selling these as nothing more than powder horn's. ANYONE could have put the tag on them,I bought them as a huge pile of stuff the family had left. I love the color and the measure has a really good patina on it. Fake or real,I like 'em! For what it's worth.
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gizamo

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Re: Original horns?
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2013, 04:45:03 AM »
Good one for a CSI team... ;)
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Offline pathfinder

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Re: Original horns?
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2013, 06:43:57 AM »
 :D
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Dogshirt

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Re: Original horns?
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2013, 09:52:59 AM »
Who really CARES who put the laces on WHEN?
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RoaringBull

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Re: Original horns?
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2013, 12:11:35 PM »
Quote from: Dogshirt on February 01, 2013, 09:52:59 AM
Who really CARES who put the laces on WHEN?

yup.
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Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: Original horns?
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2013, 03:52:12 PM »
Pathfinder. That is a great set. You never see the complete set like this. I would remove the straps and put the set in a box frame to display. My 2 cents. Could we see the other horns please?
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gizamo

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Re: Original horns?
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2013, 04:23:41 PM »
All kidding aside, it is a great looking set.

One way to see if it is early would be to pull one of the tacks. Brass tacks used to have square brass shafts during the fur trade.  You can still find them in old steamer trunks from tha era...
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Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Original horns?
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2013, 06:29:44 PM »
 The set looks good (except for the boot lace of course). But, you must remember that priming horns, were not at all as common back in the day, as they now are . An antique set with priming horn, usually gets my antennas up.

                  Hungry Horse
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LURCHWV@BJS

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Re: Original horns?
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2013, 07:47:31 PM »
I in no way consider myself in any way,an expert. I don't even consider myself a good novice .  But something to ponder
  Remove the lace from the measure  the area where the knot is tied , could that have possibly been a whistle? Possibly the little thingy on the end fell out.
Just a possible observation.

  Rich

   
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Offline Chuck Burrows

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Re: Original horns?
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2013, 09:23:54 PM »
Quote from: gizamo on February 01, 2013, 04:23:41 PM
All kidding aside, it is a great looking set.

One way to see if it is early would be to pull one of the tacks. Brass tacks used to have square brass shafts during the fur trade.  You can still find them in old steamer trunks from tha era...

That would depend on when in the 1800's the tacks were added - by the mid-1870's steel shank tacks became available
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Offline Chuck Burrows

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Re: Original horns?
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2013, 09:25:05 PM »
Quote from: Hungry Horse on February 01, 2013, 06:29:44 PM
The set looks good (except for the boot lace of course). But, you must remember that priming horns, were not at all as common back in the day, as they now are . An antique set with priming horn, usually gets my antennas up.

                  Hungry Horse

The small horn could be a cap horn and not necessarily a priming horn - check out the size of the opening...
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Offline mr. no gold

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Re: Original horns?
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2013, 09:38:22 PM »
Small horns seem to have been used to carry percussion caps in the later era. How do I know? I have a fine little 'priming' horn, quite old, filled with equally old caps. I came from Ohio, as I understand it.
Dick
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Offline pathfinder

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Re: Original horns?
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2013, 10:21:39 PM »
Yup,Cap horn. Thought salt,but it tastes too yucky for salt! :P
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Offline Habu

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Re: Original horns?
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2013, 03:56:55 AM »
FWIW, Okemos died in 1858.
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Offline Kermit

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Re: Original horns?
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2013, 04:35:15 AM »
Quote from: Chapple JR on February 01, 2013, 07:47:31 PM
Remove the lace from the measure  the area where the knot is tied , could that have possibly been a whistle? Possibly the little thingy on the end fell out. 

Nice observation, Rich. If it's bored all the way through, you'd probably be right. Us old whistle fixers call that "thingie" a "fipple," BTW.  ;D
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Offline pathfinder

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Re: Original horns?
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2013, 05:37:54 AM »
Nope,doesn't go thru.Here's some updated pic's since some guy's cant get past what the previous owners did so they could be displayed.







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Offline RifleResearcher

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Re: Original horns?
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2013, 03:44:22 AM »
Pathfinder,
Your horn is very interesting and I personally would not discount the Chief Okemos attribution.  A great number of horns with firm American Indian ownership have brass tacks around the base.  This tradition in the East dates back at least to the 1740's, as fragments of horns from Conestoga Town in Pa already had them by then.  I am giving a talk on Native Powderhorns based on archaeological and documented examples this spring.  I would like your permission to include this horn as well.  Please contact me off board if you are interested.
Thanks,
Alan
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rickevans

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Re: Original horns?
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2013, 11:29:52 PM »
Wow...nice find there. Thanks for sharing.
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Offline Tim Crosby

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Re: Original horns?
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2013, 01:43:50 AM »
Quote from: RifleResearcher on February 04, 2013, 03:44:22 AM
Pathfinder,
Your horn is very interesting and I personally would not discount the Chief Okemos attribution.  A great number of horns with firm American Indian ownership have brass tacks around the base.  This tradition in the East dates back at least to the 1740's, as fragments of horns from Conestoga Town in Pa already had them by then.  I am giving a talk on Native Powderhorns based on archaeological and documented examples this spring.  I would like your permission to include this horn as well.  Please contact me off board if you are interested.
Thanks,
Alan

 Allen,
    Where/when will that be held, is it open to the public?

     Thanks, Tim C.
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Offline RifleResearcher

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Re: Original horns?
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2013, 07:36:56 AM »
I will be speaking at the Fort Pitt Museum history conference on April 13-14 in Pittsburgh.  I will post information on registration by the end of the week, when it should be up on the museum website.
Thanks,
Alan
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