.50 cal, .54 cal or .58 cal roundball preference

[Crossed Arrows]

Perhaps this subject has been beaten to death, but I haven't found it, so I'll ask the question.

What is the best overall caliber roundball for accuracy and hunting of deer, black bear and elk?

If the discussion has already been made, please lead me to it.

[Crossed Arrows]

I'll should add a max hunting range of 75 yds to the question.

[Hungry Horse]

 Caliber isn't as important, as shooting them in the right end. You can shoot them with a .90 cal. in the butt, and still have a long hard hunt ahead of you. There is no magic caliber. I should also add that more powder isn't the answer either. Lots of range time, shooting from different positions, at undesignated ranges, are the key.
  William Clark, said in his journals that his small rifle wasn't enough gun for elk, and bear. His small rifle was .36 cal. and implies he killed everything else with that little squirrel gun. Now thats shot placement.

                       Hungry Horse

 


                                 


                             

[wattlebuster]

I dont think you can go wrong with any of the calibers you named at your self imposed range of 75 yrds. Like Hungry Horse said its all about shot placement. That said of the 3 you listed Im a huge fan of a .54

[Long Ears]

Crossed Arrows,
   I have a little different take on this than HH. He is correct you can kill an elk with a head shot with a .36 if that shot presents itself and the shooter is patient enough to wait for that shot or walk away hungry. There are several guys here that hunt elk and larger and they also know what end to shoot. Most will say the larger the better. After hunting them for 45 years my choice with a roundball is a .58 and a close second a .54. Either will still shoot the right end but also gives you a much better wound channel if things go a stray. Otherwise we would all be shotting the .22 rimfire. Good luck in your quest. It's fun to build one of every caliber. Bob

[alyce-james]

Sir; Good morning. Impact placement is primary.  All three (3) calibers are great, however in this part of Texas I prefer .54 caliber. I used a .54 in Iowa, Wisconsin and here in Texas with great success. I use a .50 caliber for paper for years, enjoy my .32 for small game shooting. I'm starting to loose control of the original question. Hope this helps. AJ  

[smylee grouch]

58 will do every thing the others will do and more if you are talking about hunting

[Crossed Arrows]

Thanks for the answers. 

How about more on the accuracy part?  Is there much difference?  In other shooting disciplines there are calibers or bow draw weights that the champions tend to use because they just plain work.  Is that the case with American Longrifles?

I've got a lot of experience with .54 PBR in the field, shooting unknown distances from various positions and in varying weather conditions.  I like it a lot and from your comments it is "enough gun" as Robert Ruark would say.  And yes, shot placement within maximum effective killing range is most important.  After all, those roundballs lose a lot of energy after about 100 yds.

I haven't gone to many shoots and certainly no big ones.  Is there a preferred large caliber for tournament shooters?  I've read that a .45 cal flintlock rifle held the record for quite a few years in the NMLRA Schuetzen matches which are 10 shots @ 100 yds and 10 shots @ 200 yds and this was with roundball!  Of course, I'm asking about hunting distances.

Any thoughts?

[Standing Bear]

I have had .50s for many years and they will do it all.  

Now, I mostly shoot competition with a .40 as it don't take much to put a hole in a piece of paper or make steel ring like a bell.  I believe the smaller bore to have a slight edge in accuracy and it may be attributable to the milder recoil and therefore less sensitive to grip, cheek pressure, etc.  

I hunt with a .54 and am very comfortable with it in that application.  Sure wouldnt' feel undergunned with a .58.  If I get another it may be a .58 - or .60  - or...

Guess I need to get a .50 out every now and then.
TC

[Kermit]

The biggest bore you can hold and are willing to shoot (practice) with a lot.

Used to be .62 for me, then .54, and now I'm inclined to .50. I've got a .40 in the planning phase. That's the smallest legal caliber here, and Columbia Blacktails run small in my neck of the woods.

[hanshi]

Considering shootability, cost, effectiveness and the rest, The .54 makes a lot of sense.....as long as you leave the big bears alone.

[pathfinder]

Considering shootability, cost, effectiveness and the rest, The .54 makes a lot of sense.....as long as you leave the big bears alone.

Only if they leave ME alone! When I was a young strong Macho Mountain Man,.58 and .62's were THE Calibers to use! Now? I sure like my .32,"Ugly Betty"! But for hunting,as other have said,it's all about accuracy. But if your not all that confident in making a great shot placement,Then the "Whompability" of a .58may fit the bill,just dont hit 'em in the rump!

[Topknot]

Crossed arrows, Ive owned all three . I have no experience with bear or elk, but i do with the calibers. Sure a .58 will get the job done , and so will the .50 , but if i had an invite to hunt either, i would definetly choose the .54. The .54 is more economical , It will take more powder to reach the same velocity in the .58 than in the .54. Sure the .54 is a smaller hunk of lead , but how much smaller doesnt really matter. What matters is shot placement. I know some members would tell you out to 125 yards its deadly on elk or bear.It very well may be, but are you comforable shooting at a bear at 125 yards? Im not. Probably no more than 75 yards for me.

                                                                                    topknot

[Crossed Arrows]

TOPKNOT - I think you are spot on with your 100th post on this forum.

I'm going to stick with my .54 and shoot it until it becomes a smoothbore.

[Ron T.]

I shoot nothing both .50 caliber cap-lock and flintlock rifles, all of which are adequate for whitetails.  My maximum shooting range at deer is 85 yards or less... preferably less.

Since you mentioned you may be hunting both bears and elk as well as deer as your quarry, I believe your best bet would be to go to at least a .54 caliber rifle, keep your shooting ranges under 100 yards and make sure you can get proper ball or bullet placement in the "kil zone" on anything at which you shoot.

For "fun" shooting at the rifle range and small game hunting, a smaller caliber (.32 or .36... or even a .40) would be more economical (less lead in the rifle ball and less powder to propel it). but the .54 can do it all if necessary. as long as you use "head shots" for hunting everything or "bark" the squirrels.  A body "hit" with a .54 caliber would destroy far too much meat using it for body hits on small game.

Some fellas like the .36 caliber rifles because the size of buck shot (000 buck?) works for the .36 caliber ball.  However, buck shot is "dropped", not molded or swagged, so there is some question of just how accurate dropped buck shot would be in a .36 caliber, black powder, muzzle-loading rifle.

However, I'd recommend the Hornady SWAGGED .36 caliber balls.  While they would be more expensive than dropped 000 buck shot, they'd 'most likely also be much more accurate.  But you need to ask some of the fellas who have had some experience in shooting 000 buck shot in .36 caliber rifles since I'm only relaying to you things I've heard OTHERS talk about.  I have no experience of my own in .36 caliber rifles.

Good hunting... and make GOOD smoke!   


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

[Topknot]

Did I miss something? I thought we were talking about .50 thru .54 caliber rifles for bear and elk. since .36 cal. was mentioned , Ned roberts said that he used triple aught buckshot alot growing up because it was more economical and he said as far as accuracy was concerned he couldnt tell much difference than those casted.

                                                        topknot

[Habu]

Also in reality, the difference in operating costs over a year's time between a couple calibers like a .54cal and .58cal is probably no more than a double whopper at burger king, LOL.

This got me thinking, and since I had the numbers on hand for my .54 hunting load, and a buddy's .58 hunting load, I crunched some numbers.  Using the last price I paid for powder, and today's spot price for lead ($1.10), it works out to a difference of about $.056 per shot. 

As for the OP and his question, I tend to prefer a .54 for general hunting.  For bears, I prefer something larger. 

[Osprey]

They should all shoot well at 75 yards or less, but since you said hunting let me bring up another angle.  How heavy a gun do you want to carry?  For range work, sure, use whichever you want and don't worry about the weight, but I know I base my hunting guns on getting the lightest barrel for what I need.  A .54 in 38" swamped C weight is about as light as you can get and is a joy to carry in the woods.  Maybe not what you'd want for all day shooting paper, but for one shot in the woods while hunting, likely rested on some sort of support if you have time, hard to go wrong with that combo.  The way the calibers break down in the different barrel profiles will generally get you a heavier barrel with the .58.  A .50 in B weight is another good choice for weight considerations, but for bigger stuff like bears or elk I'd jump to the .54.

[B.Habermehl]

I really like my .58 for deer hunting. Hit the animal in the boiler room. Shot placement is allways the key. All the deer I have shot with my .58 would have gone down within sight if not for terrain. All but one within 35 yds of the spot where bullet strike occured. The other one ran 25yds collapsed and slid 50 yds down a steep hill.   BJH

[Pete G.]

My preference is .50.

Incidentally your can shoot buckshot into a 3/8" hole using a Rice .36 cal barrel. Probably some others too, but I don't have experience with them.

[Topknot]

To Roundball and all on this thread,
If I offended anyone in my posts, please forgive me, It was not my intent at all. I sometimes get carried away on topics that really interest me. Sure , by all means shoot whatever caliber that you are the most comfortable with and can shoot well, whether it is .50,.54,.58, or .62 caliber.The best caliber for elk or bear is the one that you can shoot the most accurate. I was only quoting what i have read about saving powder and it being more economical to shoot the .54 , compared to the .58.   My intentions were honorable and not trying to offend anyone.  Sorry guys.

                                            topknot

[Crossed Arrows]

TOPNOT - Many thanks for the heads up on posting photos and thanks to all for your input.  This forum is very helpful, I always benefit from the wisdom of others.

I had a .58 for a few years.  A really beautiful rifle that was a pleasure to carry and to shoot and I have constant bruising on my butt from kicking myself for having sold it.  I don't suppose that any of you have ever done that.

Now I shoot .54s and still love them.  My Lyman GPR is set up with a TC hunter peep sight and a Lyman globe front sight - what I call a "Poor Man's Schuetzen."

My TVM Early Virginia  flintlock is my field gun and I take the advice of Thomas Jefferson when he advised his nephew "... for exercise I recommend the gun."  With a 43" barrel, it weighs over 10# and gives me a good workout on the steep hillsides of my neighborhood.  I just ordered a primitive peep sight from Dave Dolliver because I just plain, no excuses but just the facts cannot see well enough to use open sight anymore.  For those of you who can, more power to you, but for me at age 65, I'm taking a bit of liberty.  The rocks I shoot at won't mind and the deer and elk and black bears won't mind either.

I asked the original question because I was wondering if maybe I should change caliber, but after all of your well-considered opinions, I'll stay with the .54s for now.  It's kinda like deciding if a blond or a redhead or a brunette is best.  They can all be good at the right time  and in the right circumstances if you treat them right.  Then again, if you don't handle them properly they'll all cause you trouble.

[bigsmoke]

So, I guess the answer is whichever caliber you fancy, that you are comfortable shooting, and that you have confidence in.

The .50 caliber has proven itself to be an all around caliber for target shooting and for hunting North American big game.  It is the largest selling caliber in the US.  However, to me, it is a nothing choice.  I have never cared for it, and subquently, I have never had one that shot well for me.  I'd stay home and watch golf on TV before I went out shooting or hunting with a .50.  Like I say, it's just me, being my typical non-conformist self.

I have shot .54's since I my first rifle, a T/C Renegade, in the early 1970's.  I love that caliber, I am confident in that caliber and I am sure I will always have one to call my own.  If I were to go out hunting deer or elk, I would take one and I believe it would do the job.

.58's?  Well, I really never had one and have only shot a few.  From what I have seen, they do OK, but no experience with them.

As we are working our way up, I gotta say the .62 is a fantastic all around choice.  With the right stock design, they are comfortable to shoot, even with heavy powder charges.

My very favorite rifle that I have ever had was an English Sporting Rifle in .72 caliber.  Comfortable to shoot even with 200 grain charges.  And talk about whompability - it tipped a buffalo over onto its back at 100 yards.  Ufda!!

Bottom line - whatever rows your boat - go for it.

[Dphariss]

Perhaps this subject has been beaten to death, but I haven't found it, so I'll ask the question.

What is the best overall caliber roundball for accuracy and hunting of deer, black bear and elk?

If the discussion has already been made, please lead me to it.

What is the stock design?
The Hawken, using the commercially available buttplates is pretty well maxed at 54. A great many Kentucky designs are as well and some are maxed at 45. Earlier rifles with bigger, flatter buttplates and combs closer to parallel with bore will tolerate larger ball sizes better.
Some 58s can take a lot of powder to get good accuracy. This makes a lot of recoil.
Used right the 54 will do for about anything in the lower 48 and has both historically and to this day.
If you hunt in western Wyoming, Montana and parts of Idaho the Gbear population has increased and in some areas they have become pretty aggressive. For these I would rather have a 16 or 20 bore rifle. But these calibers are better when stocked as an English Sporting rifle 1750-1850. These were generally stocked similar to a fowler and have far better recoil characteristics.
But the shot has to be placed right. This can trump ball size so long as the ball is adequate.
Dan

Dan

[Dphariss]

So, I guess the answer is whichever caliber you fancy, that you are comfortable shooting, and that you have confidence in.

The .50 caliber has proven itself to be an all around caliber for target shooting and for hunting North American big game.  It is the largest selling caliber in the US.  However, to me, it is a nothing choice.  I have never cared for it, and subquently, I have never had one that shot well for me.  I'd stay home and watch golf on TV before I went out shooting or hunting with a .50.  Like I say, it's just me, being my typical non-conformist self.

I have shot .54's since I my first rifle, a T/C Renegade, in the early 1970's.  I love that caliber, I am confident in that caliber and I am sure I will always have one to call my own.  If I were to go out hunting deer or elk, I would take one and I believe it would do the job.

.58's?  Well, I really never had one and have only shot a few.  From what I have seen, they do OK, but no experience with them.

As we are working our way up, I gotta say the .62 is a fantastic all around choice.  With the right stock design, they are comfortable to shoot, even with heavy powder charges.

My very favorite rifle that I have ever had was an English Sporting Rifle in .72 caliber.  Comfortable to shoot even with 200 grain charges.  And talk about whompability - it tipped a buffalo over onto its back at 100 yards.  Ufda!!

Bottom line - whatever rows your boat - go for it.

I have a English sporting rifle type that uses a .662 ball (16 to the pound). 140 gr of FF Swiss gives 1600 fps. The rifle weighs about 10 pounds. I would not recommend this to anyone who had any sensitivity to recoil.

Click on the image and it should play.

This is why stock design in important.
The second rifle is a 54 with 90 gr of FFF Swiss.
Jame Forsythe in "The Sporting Rifle and Its Projectiles" stated that the 16 bore was about as small as would be used on dangerous game. He hunted in India. In Africa the 12 bore was thought to be the smallest practical caliber for large game from my reading.  John Taylor used a 10 bore smooth for awhile in the 1930s (IIRC) to kill African Elephant and some Rhino. He was using 167 gr of powder with a hardened ball, standard for heavy game. Its detailed in "Pondoro". 10 bores were .760-.775 according the the tables in "The Gun and Its Development" by Greener.
I have owned several 50s and have 2 right now and find its an ideal deer caliber, while I have not shot an Elk with one it is done routinely with good success. Its a good average for a large bore Kentucky circa 1770-1790. Few were larger than this. For most people wanting a Kentucky that is authentic and used for hunting its ideal.  I like it in my heavy match rifle because it produces less wind drift than the smaller bores.
 
Granville Stewart who came to Montana in the 1860s told of having a 69-72 caliber English rifle with a Tiger engraved on it while living at Virginia City. Said it would turn him 1/2 way around when he shot it. It, like my 16 bore rifle is needlessly large for anything but Gbear. But I would still rather use it for Elk or Moose than a 54. Except for the recoil. It takes more concentration to shoot well, even when I am used to it, than a 50 or 54.

Dan