Author Topic: TV "experts" (Read 12854 times)

kentucky bucky · « **on:** February 07, 2013, 08:07:58 AM »

I watch the pawn shows and a new show about antique weapon auctions. The guy/guys that are supposed to be experts on these shows say that an antique firearm, no matter what it is or how old it is, has to be able to fire before its worth top dollar. They take them all out and shoot them before they will even sell them, even though anybody can see that some of them are perfectly functional. Some are 200 year old flinters or 16th century wheel locks, Where did they get this idea? This surely isn't the case for original longrifles in my travels.

gunmaker · « **Reply #1 on:** February 07, 2013, 08:37:22 AM »

They were hired to look the part for uninformed TV freaks. Clowns

Fullstock longrifle · « **Reply #2 on:** February 07, 2013, 03:57:21 PM »

I'm sure that some New York or Los Angeles ad man who doesn't know a thing about an antique firearm came up with that stupid idea. I cringe whenever I see them do that on those shows.
Frank

Avlrc · « **Reply #3 on:** February 07, 2013, 05:01:42 PM »

Like I say wait until they get one that some restorer has added a few inches back to the barrel. With a weld that was meant for looks only. As a whole I think Americans are getting dumber.

Shreckmeister · « **Reply #4 on:** February 07, 2013, 06:36:07 PM »

Saw an episode on Auction Hunters last night when Ton shot a Civil War Starr revolver and had a chain
fire on his second or third shot. What are some causes of a chain fire? Is it poor design, flaw in gun?

JB2 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 07, 2013, 06:42:33 PM »

defective nut holding the grip!

Dan'l 1946 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 07, 2013, 06:49:21 PM »

Chainfires are the result of caps that either don't fit well to begin with or that aren't seated firmly on the cone. So basically what Jim said: the defective nut holding the grip!

JB2 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 07, 2013, 07:13:10 PM »

I didn't see the episode (quit watching when it got 'even more' stupid). Did the chainfire damage the gun or defective nut? Or was it 'staged' with squib loads and wax just for a dramatic super-slo-mo close-up? Ain't 'reality' great?! I guess ya gotta use those 5000fps cameras if you got 'em, and who cares if it 'proves gun nuts must be crazy'!!

grrr!

Frank Barker · « **Reply #8 on:** February 07, 2013, 07:28:39 PM »

Chain fires in a revolver come from not capping off the cylinder after loading or not using the proper over the powder wads. I'm with you guys....IDIOTS !

Shreckmeister · « **Reply #9 on:** February 07, 2013, 07:38:09 PM »

Over the powder wads? Please describe. Thanks

Dphariss · « **Reply #10 on:** February 07, 2013, 07:49:50 PM »

Quote from: kentucky bucky on February 07, 2013, 08:07:58 AM

I watch the pawn shows and a new show about antique weapon auctions. The guy/guys that are supposed to be experts on these shows say that an antique firearm, no matter what it is or how old it is, has to be able to fire before its worth top dollar. They take them all out and shoot them before they will even sell them, even though anybody can see that some of them are perfectly functional. Some are 200 year old flinters or 16th century wheel locks, Where did they get this idea? This surely isn't the case for original longrifles in my travels.

Given the very basic errors I have seen I sometimes wonder.... Like the "expert" thinking that the number on the loading gate on a Colt SAA is keyed to the serial number, then docking the price because it does not. Its A TV show. I doubt they buy a lot of this stuff they supposedly buy. Why would some fool sell something for 1/2 retail so he can go blow it in the Casino? But then....
The shooting thing is just for the TV show. Drama about if a 1860 Army will shoot???

Or a 1894 Winchester? What collector would doubt a near mint Hotchkiss gun's function?
Never let the facts get in the way of a "good" TV show....
I watch Pawn Stars because some neat stuff comes in. I watch American picker for the same reason.
The rest of "reality" TV is too silly. Like Axe Men (from the ads). I do like "Deadliest Catch" its hard to script the Bering Sea.

I shot C&Bs a lot back in my younger days. Never had a chain fire. Proper cap fit, proper ball fit and LUBE OVER THE BALL is all that is needed. Never used wads. But I started shooting C&B before such things were invented and then written up as something that was needed. They are not. Except the people that sell them need to sell the stuff....
Dan

kentucky bucky · « **Reply #11 on:** February 07, 2013, 08:16:23 PM »

I like it when they screw something up whe trying to shoot, or miss the target completely, and blame it on the age of the gun. I'm sure after the chain fire, they talked about how the old guns weren't very good and how dangerous they were. The "loose nut" behind the trigger is NEVER the problem.

JTR · « **Reply #12 on:** February 07, 2013, 08:30:53 PM »

Geeze, it's just a REALITY TV show!

The 'experts' say "it has to be able to fire before its worth top dollar", because that's what the Script and the production company Pays them to say.

Just keep in mind that there is no reality in any of these shows, they're all just scripted mindless entertainment. So enjoy this one, or any of the others for what they are, but don’t, not even for the briefest fraction of a second, ascribe even the tiniest degree of reality to any of these entertainment shows.

John

Shreckmeister · « **Reply #13 on:** February 07, 2013, 09:03:06 PM »

JTR, Are you saying that Rick doesn't actually have an in depth knowledge of every artifact that passes through the store? Well all this time I thought he was a genius.

mr. no gold · « **Reply #14 on:** February 07, 2013, 09:37:41 PM »

As it happens, JTR and I, know Sean Rich who hosts the new 'Lords of War' Nat Geo show. We saw him quite recently at the Las Vegas Show before the first airing. We chided him over the policy in Pawn Stars that: "If it shoots, it will be worth a lot more!" being somewhat idiotic, (not using that word) and he hung his head saying nothing. Sean is a professional restorer, collector and dealer, trained at the NY Met Museum under their conservators, so this "let's shoot em" idea has to be coming from the producers and money men somewhere up the line. We all know here that to shoot a fine antique arm is to risk ruining it and losing your investment.
In our Vegas conversation, the 'shootem' subject didn't come up, so we were amazed to see it again
on this new program.
If you knew the food chain in these productions you would be amazed at the money made and who actually gets it. It is my understanding that the major income to the pawn shop owners in '...Stars" is the sale of 'T' shirts, not wages.
Sean Rich is a good guy who has to make a living to support his family and he comes off well on camera. The script appears to be a spin off from "...Stars" and while the premise is unusual, I enjoy seeing some really neat things. Also, I learn from it. Years ago at an estate sale , I bought an uncut sheet of colonial paper money figuring that it was a repro. Well, turns out it's real based on what the show revealed. So, I will hang in there on Wednesday evening on my channel.
Dick

Avlrc · « **Reply #15 on:** February 07, 2013, 10:29:48 PM »

The probelm is, they are educating an uneducated group of people, in a very unsafe practice. I don't think their stupidity is going to influence any of us here on ALR to go and load up our 200 plus year old Kentucky and target practice. But how about some kid that just inheirits his GGGG Grandfathers Musket, that his family has had for a couple centuries. I am going to guess that they use very small powder charges, and probably there is a real firearms expert that gives them the go ahead after careful examination of the gun.. I am sure that we all have a antique rifle or two that is such good cond, we could safely fire it with a proper light load. Since I am not a BP shooter , I am not even tempted. The problem is , to a person that does not have a clue or only shot modern guns, these un-reality shows are a real hazard. I can see a Lawyer with some kid for a client that blew his hand off or was blinded, saying his client got the idea from one of these shows. I doubt he would win, but!

Mike Gahagan · « **Reply #16 on:** February 07, 2013, 11:23:51 PM »

Avlrc,you said exactly what I was going to say,except you said in a way everyone could understand.Thank you.

Avlrc · « **Reply #17 on:** February 08, 2013, 12:06:28 AM »

Quote from: Mike Gahagan on February 07, 2013, 11:23:51 PM

Avlrc,you said exactly what I was going to say,except you said in a way everyone could understand.Thank you.

Thanks Mike, my wife says I talk backward..

Tom Moore · « **Reply #18 on:** February 08, 2013, 12:14:53 AM »

I think the funniest part is when they load up a muzzleloading cannon to see if it still functions. What's not to function on a hollow tube with no moving parts and a touch hole at the base??

eastwind · « **Reply #19 on:** February 08, 2013, 02:37:20 AM »

Avric - a good point about the amateur being misslead by the shooting of antique arms. But I also see a larger issue with these programs, Lords of War, Pawn Stars, etc. that could adversely effect all of us who respect the history and beauty of antique firerams. By shooting such guns these programs also send the message that any gun is nothing more than a gadget to get some kind of vicarious thrill. One does not need to shoot an antique (Joe Kindig never shot one and neither would a museum) to appreciate their virtues. The message these programs send is that any gun is just a toy, and by shooting both modern and antique guns in the same program such as "Lords" they confuse the viewer and in the end detract from the historic value of the antique guns.
Additionally, the "Lords" program is filled with stupid mistakes, both historically and the values put on the guns in the show. Consider the signal (salute) canon Shawn Rich said would kill the enemy -duh!... or the Winchester Model 1894 which one of the idiots said was the kind used at the Battle of the Little Bighorn in 1879 (get the date difference?) How about Rich's appraised value of $6,000. for a cased pair of London dueling pistols by Knubley. If as reported these were perfect with all accessories in its original case those pistols would go for around $20,000. in any real auction. When I go to sell mine the buyer will remember that low appraisal and think I'm greedy. I could go into more. Such mistakes made on the program are in themselves dangerous to our marketplace and the efforts of all of us who try to advance the future appreciation of early firearms. I know it's just a dumb TV show but I have written to the venerable National Geographic Society in the hope that they look closer at what they have created... hopefully a few of you will do the same.

Patrick Hornberger

mr. no gold · « **Reply #20 on:** February 08, 2013, 02:48:55 AM »

Let's keep in mind that shooting an antque is not new. In the 50s almost anyone who shot BP used an antique gun; even before that, read Cline's book. I shot my first KY Rifle just to put 'Suzy Belle' through her paces; learned not to when the gun and I were involved in a huge car wreck. Gun came through best of all; the rest of us somewhat worse. That was the last time I ever shot it or any other BP gun. When there are other alternatives why do it?
Hand wringing or worrying about what may or may not happen, lawyers and what some kid may do is probably counter intuitive and not productive, here, as someone says. A kid will do whatever he will.
Forgot to mention that Sean is an expert on British sea service and cavalry hand guns. He may or may not write a book on that subject in the future. Hope that he does.
Dick

mr. no gold · « **Reply #21 on:** February 08, 2013, 08:46:34 AM »

Wow! Two beautiful rifles with one in super condition and the other, quite the opposite. @!*% shame that the second one met with unfortunate circumstances. Amazing how closely the carving and inlays on it match the complete example though.
An owner must have gotten a blockage in the barrel, or some nitwit put smokeless in it once upon a time. Wonder where the barrel and forearm went? And how about the shooter?
They look Virginia; can you tell us who the maker was? The butt stock appears to have had the inlays stripped out, is the box still in place?
Thank you for letting us see these fine guns. Much appreciated.
Dick

mr. no gold · « **Reply #22 on:** February 08, 2013, 10:23:22 PM »

Double WOW!! These really are two great guns. Thank you for showing the PB side. Young was a superb maker, and artisan as well. I am truly impressed. You are very fortunate to have these and here's hoping that you find more of his work! I don't have any VA work to speak of and looks like it would be worthwhile to get into the chase. Don't see much it out west, though.
Speaking of smokeless, there was a fellow in So. Illinois where I grew up who had missing fingers. He had decided to shoot a damascus barrel ML shotgun and enptied shot shells of the powder and loaded that into the gun. Well, he shot it off, the barrels burst, and cut his fingers off. Probably ruined a good
gun in the process. Thank you again for showing us what a great VA gun(s) looks like.
Best-Dick

Avlrc · « **Reply #23 on:** February 09, 2013, 12:07:57 AM »

Dick, Some of them get to the West Coast. I found another signed George Young from an antique shop in LA...He had it on Gunbroker...I was shocked.

.Then I researched Young and found out that is where his wife and some of his children went in about 1880 or so (he died 1875)...I even found her and some of their children burried in a LA area cemetery, I think the cemetery was called Santa Ana?

? (findagrave & ancestry.com are great research aids) I am not saying that his family took it there, but there is a good chance. Go figure!

mr. no gold · « **Reply #24 on:** February 09, 2013, 01:39:09 AM »

Mighty glad that it found its way into your hands. Great history of the Young family and they are probably buried in the town, (city now) of Santa Ana which is Next to Anaheim, home of Disneyland. It is just south of LA and anymore everything north of Oceanside is just referred to a LA by us southers.
However, it is possible that there is Santa Ana cemetery in LA itself. I just don't know.
It would not be at all out of the question that the family took his own gun with them when they came west. That you found his gun in LA kind of argues for that. Not everything is by chance in this world.
Guess that I better keep on looking out around here.
Again, thank you!
Dick

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Author Topic: TV "experts" (Read 12854 times)

JB2

JB2