Author Topic: Mediocrity (Read 21142 times)

Mike Brooks · « **on:** February 13, 2013, 03:02:58 AM »

I browse several sites and see high priced mediocrity. It's burning me out..... $:-\$

jimc2 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 13, 2013, 03:16:10 AM »

Our society seems to accept mediocrity as being the norm just do good enough sad sad comment.

Majorjoel · « **Reply #2 on:** February 13, 2013, 03:50:28 AM »

Cheer up fella's, feel good in yourselves that you KNOW the difference between the mediocre and the exceptional. There are so many who do not have a clue and really could care less.

Kermit · « **Reply #3 on:** February 13, 2013, 03:56:43 AM »

In 1928 my grandfather was in the market for a new automobile. He'd heard that Mr. Ford was bringing out a new motorcar that you didn't have to shift with your feet. When the "A" arrived in town, all shiney and new, he drove the '21 Star into town for a look. Wasn't impressed at all. He drove to the other end of town and ordered a new '28 Pontiac sedan. Very nice car that served him well, and that he took pride in. He was a good farmer, and worked hard. He wasn't ever going to be a Packard or Auburn owner, and Duesenbergs were not even in his dreams.

Some don't have the money or the priorities, but some will see the value in something better. Maybe not the ne plus ultra or bespoke, but something to be proud of and take care of.

Dphariss · « **Reply #4 on:** February 13, 2013, 04:15:48 AM »

Some people WANT mediocrity. Its like kids running around highschool in torn clothing.
People getting as much for sloppily put together and executed longrifles as for properly done rifles.
I have seen work by people I have respected for decades that now looks like $#@* and brought 10 times what I can get.

Its a fad. Its been brought on by the re-enactors delusion that beat up looking guns are "correct". So since they are going the be "aged" anyway the aging can be used to cover or complement poor workmanship.

Dan

Dphariss · « **Reply #5 on:** February 13, 2013, 04:18:13 AM »

Quote from: Kermit on February 13, 2013, 03:56:43 AM

In 1928 my grandfather was in the market for a new automobile. He'd heard that Mr. Ford was bringing out a new motorcar that you didn't have to shift with your feet. When the "A" arrived in town, all shiney and new, he drove the '21 Star into town for a look. Wasn't impressed at all. He drove to the other end of town and ordered a new '28 Pontiac sedan. Very nice car that served him well, and that he took pride in. He was a good farmer, and worked hard. He wasn't ever going to be a Packard or Auburn owner, and Duesenbergs were not even in his dreams.

Some don't have the money or the priorities, but some will see the value in something better. Maybe not the ne plus ultra or bespoke, but something to be proud of and take care of.

You missed the point....
How do you explain todays Kentucky buyers INTENTIONALLY pay MUCH more for LESS in some instances?

Dan

Dphariss · « **Reply #6 on:** February 13, 2013, 04:19:02 AM »

Anyway I hope its a fad....

Dan

Scout · « **Reply #7 on:** February 13, 2013, 05:01:00 AM »

Quote from: Dphariss on February 13, 2013, 04:15:48 AM

Its been brought on by the re-enactors delusion that beat up looking guns are "correct". So since they are going the be "aged" anyway the aging can be used to cover or complement poor workmanship.

Dan

Although this is not about building rifles it's on the same note.
I had a similar discussion with a fellow reenactor back in the early 1990s when I was involved in that hobby. He had pretty much "aged" and or allowed his repro Enfield rifle musket to rust and fall into disrepair. He defended his position by saying "it now looks historically correct, like it's from the 1860s."
I said when the troops used them in the CW they relied on their weapons and kept them clean and in working condition, they didn't look like they 150 years old then.
He finally "got it".

smart dog · « **Reply #8 on:** February 13, 2013, 05:32:49 AM »

Hi Mike,
Don't look at those sites and raise your prices.

dave

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #9 on:** February 13, 2013, 12:04:25 PM »

Quote from: smart dog on February 13, 2013, 05:32:49 AM

Hi Mike,
Don't look at those sites and raise your prices.

dave

Good advice.

Bob Roller · « **Reply #10 on:** February 13, 2013, 03:56:52 PM »

Kermit,
Going off topic,I worked in a garage where we specilaized in Duesenbergs and others that were "orphans"
and our joke about the model "T" Ford was that it "Started at the bottom and went down from there".
As a new car,the model "T" and the Jaeger chrongraph clock in the dash of the Duesenberg cost as much as
the Ford. Raydon Thompson made it a point to buy Model T's and 8 cylinder Cadillacs and promptly consigning
them to Andy Battista's junk yard.The bad brakes on that model Cadillac were his main reason and the mechanical
wretchedness of the Model "T" was the other.Personally,I have only owned one vehicle that said FORD on the hood,
an F150 heavy duty,never owned a Chevrolet but had a Buick that was close enough.Two Cadillacs,one a 1937 V12 and a '56
sedan.Five Packards from "35 to '55 and seven Lincolns and last but not but not least,three Plymouths and one Studebaker Lark
which was a successful attempt to build a car for $20 in parts and labor.

Bob Roller

willyr · « **Reply #11 on:** February 13, 2013, 05:30:53 PM »

Mike, I know where you're coming from. Several years ago, on another board, someone posted photos of a rifle he had just purchased. It was supposed to be an "Edward Marshall" rifle. It had a straight sided .36 caliber barrel and the architecture was hideous and the relief carving was worse. The owner was wondering what had become of the builder. With tongue firmly in cheek, I suggested that perhaps he had followed his true calling and was doing chain saw sculpture. The moderators on that board chastised me severely for my comment, even though the subject rifle was really hideous.
I think the biggest problem is that semi-production or semi-custom rifles of this day are being produced and purchased by people today who haven't bothered to do the research and actually could care less.
Be Well,
Bill

Frank Barker · « **Reply #12 on:** February 13, 2013, 05:36:03 PM »

We have settled for mediocrity for so long, mediocrity is now in charge.

Kermit · « **Reply #13 on:** February 13, 2013, 05:39:13 PM »

Quote from: Dphariss on February 13, 2013, 04:18:13 AM

You missed the point....
How do you explain todays Kentucky buyers INTENTIONALLY pay MUCH more for LESS in some instances?

Dan

My apopogies for my oversight, Dan. You're so clever to be able to read what I missed and that Mike didn't say. Well done, my man. Sometimes us geezerish graybeards need a little help.

bonron · « **Reply #14 on:** February 13, 2013, 07:56:10 PM »

Mediocrity is a matter of perception. Example: I'm 80 yrs. old. I have diabetic neurapathy and as a result I have little feeling in my fingers and my eyesight is failing rapidly. To compare anything I make to those guns made by Ian Pratt, John Gaeckle, Allen Martin, etc. would be flat out ridiculous. However I made it and did the best I can with what I have to work with and I am proud of it.. You call my rifle mediocre and I'll not be very happy with you. Everything on this earth can be rationalized, but don't put down those of us who are less talented than others...........Ron

Keb · « **Reply #15 on:** February 13, 2013, 08:50:09 PM »

Quote from: Mike Brooks on February 13, 2013, 03:02:58 AM

I browse several sites and see high priced mediocrity. It's burning me out..... $:-\$

I don't think Mr. Brooks was moaning about mediocre guns but the prices of them. I also agree he should raise his prices but not until he finishes the one he is making for me.

blackbruin · « **Reply #16 on:** February 13, 2013, 08:51:55 PM »

One question, was every longrifle made during their era an exquisite piece of art? They were making a living producing arms, not to say they make junk or to sub par standards. I understand that some builders today are no more than a glorified hobbyist, but for some people who know no better or are restricted by monetary means, this is how they fill their need. Of course people ignorant to a longrifle can have the wool pulled over their eyes by these builders. Would I love to own a longrifle by allen martin or bill shipman? your darn tootin' but I do not have the funds to do so, or at least dont want a bare bones "schimmel". Not until possibly after the last child leaves the homestead or I hit the lottery. I don't want mediocrity anymore than you do, but some people will accept it cause they are impatient or $$$. Now to those that get charged top rate for mediocrity, thats there own fault, shame on them.

Roger B · « **Reply #17 on:** February 13, 2013, 09:01:54 PM »

It could be that some Kentucky buyers don't know what real quality is. I agree that a seller needs to be honest with themselves and their potential buyer when they sell a rifle. I have sold two or three rifles on this site, a couple of which were mediocre. I made it very clear to the buyer that they were not great rifles and told them what the problems were. They were made from high quality parts, shot straight, and functioned well, but were not terribly well made. I priced them accordingly and didn't have any gripes from the buyer. Some folks can't afford a high quality rifle, and a mediocre rifle, sold at a mediocre price, which does it's job well, is nothing to be ashamed of. Gouging the public is another thing entirely.
Roger B.

hanshi · « **Reply #18 on:** February 13, 2013, 09:52:58 PM »

Definitions? I know of some mediocre guns out there; but they are still of high quality. They're accurate, handle well, attractive and as reliable as the sunrise but still rather mediocre. Let's not spend too much time in ivory towers when we could be burning powder and having fun.

jimc2 · « **Reply #19 on:** February 13, 2013, 10:04:11 PM »

In all due respect, it is not just long rifle makers,buyers mediocraty is, I believe the accepted norm in todays America.Just seems that folks don't do their best at school,jobs,etc..No manners, kids with pants around their hips dragging on the ground ,no respect for elders,authority. I also think when you do not expect the best you get what expected.Sorry for the rant

Dr. Tim-Boone · « **Reply #20 on:** February 13, 2013, 10:48:54 PM »

Seems like two dynamics (at least) at work here.
1. Most/many buyers don't know what they don't know about long rifles.... several years ago I bought a Pedersoli....didn't know custom guns existed...wouldn't buy a Pedersoli now because I am more interested in Historically appropriate guns.....
2. In today's world it seems you get more points for being rash and over the top or paying more for your car(gun) than others. The fact you paid more must mean it is worth more.... Rationalization is powerful. In the consulting business if you double your daily rates you will get more business........why is that...

I would buy a Mike Brooks (and many others on here) gun at his asking price(the ones I have seen) and consider myself having gotten a bargain ... but that comes from hanging around and trying to learn something. And having those who know a lot more honestly critique all of our work. Truth is this is a rare community on the web......

Bob Roller · « **Reply #21 on:** February 13, 2013, 11:03:25 PM »

Paul Harvey frequently spoke of standardized mediocrity and frequently
spoke of the UNcommon man by saying many people ridicule these types
but are always sad when one of them passes away.
Muzzle loaders have been at the low end of the income scale for decades
and we have all seen them cobbled together to achieve nothing more than
a level of wretchedness seldom equalled. Are there any J.Paul Getty types involved
in our activities?I think not and most people with heavy debt loads and other
obligations do well to have any kind of a muzzle loader even when they are kindly
disposed to them as a recreational thing.
Well off Europeans are another thing entirely and thanks to them,I was able to keep my
lock making activities going. I shut the doors to lock making and concentrated on the
automobile hobbyists and transmission shops for a long time and anyone wanting a lock
or trigger had to wait until the cars were taken care of.
Today,I do locks for only those who don't call bitching about price and letting $5 stop a
gun making project.Too much of that in years past to ever be bothered with these people.
Mediocrity,standardized or otherwise will aways be sought out so I'll leave it there.

Bob Roller

Dphariss · « **Reply #22 on:** February 14, 2013, 12:46:27 AM »

Quote from: blackbruin on February 13, 2013, 08:51:55 PM

One question, was every longrifle made during their era an exquisite piece of art? They were making a living producing arms, not to say they make junk or to sub par standards. I understand that some builders today are no more than a glorified hobbyist, but for some people who know no better or are restricted by monetary means, this is how they fill their need. Of course people ignorant to a longrifle can have the wool pulled over their eyes by these builders. Would I love to own a longrifle by allen martin or bill shipman? your darn tootin' but I do not have the funds to do so, or at least dont want a bare bones "schimmel". Not until possibly after the last child leaves the homestead or I hit the lottery. I don't want mediocrity anymore than you do, but some people will accept it cause they are impatient or $$$. Now to those that get charged top rate for mediocrity, thats there own fault, shame on them.

Lots of longrifles were pretty ugly back in the day and would be historically correct if recreated. But what is the point of making an ugly kentucky when its just as easy and costs no more than making one with good lines and workmanship?
I think some here are confusing mediocre with plain. A plain rifle can be first class if it has good lines and workmanship.
Plain does not mean "mediocre".
I am constantly appalled that people who know better can make butt ugly rifles and then get applause for it.
Its mind boggling.

Dan

blackbruin · « **Reply #23 on:** February 14, 2013, 01:12:49 AM »

or at least dont want a bare bones "schimmel"

What was meant there was that any particular plain riflle done elegantly might be within my price range from the best of the best. Not that plain guns should be any less of workmanship.

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #24 on:** February 14, 2013, 01:22:17 AM »

I don't think mediocrity has anything to do with a gun being "aged" or not. There are amazing examples of this work and there are poor examples, just like anything else. You have to keep in mind that this stuff is all relative as well. I look back at earlier work I was proud of, but now wouldn't be happy with it. Not realizing how little you know certainly contributes to all this.

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Author Topic: Mediocrity (Read 21142 times)

jimc2

willyr

bonron

blackbruin

jimc2

blackbruin