Author Topic: Mediocrity  (Read 21177 times)

loco219

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Re: Mediocrity
« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2013, 01:58:03 AM »
It all has to do with "The Eye" for me. After you fool with these guns long enough, you develope the "Eye", to see quality, from mediocrity, to shopclass junk. I love them all. but over the years I learned by asking ( BUGGING ) some of the best. Chuck Dixon and Bill Shipman showed me what to look for in a well executed gun. Now I can tell. I won't look down my nose at a $700 complete gun, but I won't buy it either.

Offline Robby

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Re: Mediocrity
« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2013, 02:30:03 AM »
With good cheerleaders a mediocre team can be enthused to go beyond their apparent ability and excel, and truly, no longer considered mediocre. With an inanimate object such as a rifle, and good cheerleaders it will sell, for more than it is worth, but it will still be mediocre. Not to the fellow that bought it, but to those that thought it mediocre before.
I know this is a mediocre response, but like my guns, it was the best I could come up with.
Robby
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Mediocrity
« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2013, 02:45:57 AM »
Mediocrity is a matter of perception. Example: I'm 80 yrs. old. I have diabetic neurapathy and as a result I have little feeling in my fingers and my eyesight is failing rapidly. To compare anything I make to those guns made by Ian Pratt, John Gaeckle, Allen Martin, etc. would be flat out ridiculous. However I made it and did the best I can with what I have to work with and I am proud of it.. You call my rifle mediocre and I'll not be very happy with you. Everything on this earth can be rationalized, but don't put down those of us who are less talented than others...........Ron
Got no problems with you, unless you think your work is worth 5K.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Mediocrity
« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2013, 02:51:17 AM »
These days I usually find fishing, hunting, or shooting a more satisfying past time....uh oh, sounds like burn out...... :o
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline PPatch

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Re: Mediocrity
« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2013, 05:30:26 AM »
Mike I have been in and around the art world my entire adult life and the Long Rifle community reflects the art field perfectly, abet in miniature. One meets the same types and witnesses’ the same discussions and expressed feelings on ALR and other forums as one does in the arts. You’ve got the doers, the wanna be’s, your imitators (technically good, but they have never created anything original in their life), dabblers, collectors and admirers. Within those broad categories the spectrum of talent and knowledge is wide and diverse but like all pursuits in life the majority fall smack dab in the middle.  With few exceptions the arts and crafts buying public does not know fiddly squat when it comes to fine art, the crafts, a gun. They will literally buy anything put to them with a little “art speak” and sold with a little flattery. They, the public, will buy any !@*%&@ thing, the galleries and craft outlets depend upon it. Frankly, talent is cheap, there are loads of people with talent, few though are willing to put their time in to develop their talent into skill toward true self expression. Fewer still are willing to walk the poverty path to gain an uncertain future in the arts or crafts – but many are willing to present the face of an artist while producing mediocre work (for a while), and they will sell it.

You can’t control that Mike, all you can control is what you personally make and offer for sale.  I have seen your work and you have talent and are creative. Becoming burnt out is a real thing, it happened to me in pottery after finding myself married and a child on the way but realizing the public didn’t give a care or know if my pots were a cut above – I got the same price as that other fellow who dabbled at it. I made pots for a living, he didn’t need to. Basically you have a few choices Mike, continue in the knowledge you are a fine maker and will eventually be recognized as such, quit, or, triple your prices.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2013, 05:33:30 AM by PPatch »
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Offline pathfinder

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Re: Mediocrity
« Reply #30 on: February 14, 2013, 05:40:37 AM »
I was in the antique restoration business my whole life,and if you want to see premadonna's! #@!! $#@*! A guy Refinishes a Court Cupboard set and you'd think he did a by-pass on the president! We rubbed elbow's with the art's and the holier than thou attitudes were EVERYWHERE!

I got burned out,sold my business,worked for Furniture retailer and life was awsome.

I would have LOVED to see some mediocrity in the furniture world,but alas,THEY WERE ALL THE BEST!!!

Not all baby turtles make to the sea!  Darwinism. It’s works!

Offline Don Stith

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Re: Mediocrity
« Reply #31 on: February 14, 2013, 03:55:47 PM »
Mike
 I think you should triple your prices. That would make the one I have worth more. Don't want to sell it though. You used Myron Carlsons hardware on it.

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Mediocrity
« Reply #32 on: February 14, 2013, 04:45:20 PM »
Mike
 I think you should triple your prices. That would make the one I have worth more. Don't want to sell it though. You used Myron Carlsons hardware on it.
That's a great gun Don. I don't know if you have ever shot it but it's the best shooting gun I have ever shot. I shot a 50 and 4X on the 6 bull target @ 25 yards with it years ago.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Mediocrity
« Reply #33 on: February 14, 2013, 04:50:41 PM »
My point is, I don't mind mediocre guns. It just drives me crazy to see them sell for $3500 or more. :-\
 Lots of guys build their own guns and they aren't the greatest in the world, which is ok because that's how we learn.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Don Getz

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Re: Mediocrity
« Reply #34 on: February 14, 2013, 05:01:13 PM »
Funny that you should mention Myron Carlson.   John had some of his hardware, he then found a 28 cal. rifled blank out
in the back room of the shop, this was about 15-20 years ago.   He turned that barrel into a light swamped barrel, about
44" long, and we put a southern mtn. gun.  Used a small siler with the tail rounded, small Davis double set.  We had it
pretty well shapd up thru the lock area, it then hung on the wall for a year or two, until Allen Martin could no longer look
at it unfinished, so he took it along and did his thing.   It was looked at by a lot of people for years at the CLA show, but
not as much as by Art Riser.  Art was in love with it, and John finally sold it to him about two years ago.   To our surprise
the gun showed up in Lewisburg, Pa. with Will Dupree, a good friend of ours.   No matter where we took the gun, it would
attract a lot of attention, and was not just a "mediocre" piece.........Don

Offline b bogart

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Re: Mediocrity
« Reply #35 on: February 14, 2013, 05:58:29 PM »
My guns are mediocre and I know it! But I have seen some selling for 2-3k that mine are at least as good as if not better. I need a marketing plan ;D. Seriously, I know that the builders like Mike are not dumping on a lowly hobbiest like me, not at least until I list one of these metal mounted clubs for $3000 (anyone interested????)?

SuperCracker

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Re: Mediocrity
« Reply #36 on: February 14, 2013, 08:59:52 PM »
my gun builds are mediocre compared to the other guns on here....................for now.

That's why you guys aren't seein them....................yet.


lol

Offline Mike Gahagan

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Re: Mediocrity
« Reply #37 on: February 14, 2013, 09:27:52 PM »
Mike you can blame the internet for this.You and I have been doing this for about the same amount of time and when we started we had only a few places to show our work and only had a double handful of other builders to compete with,so we had to make sure to do quality stuff.I started out making guns and selling them for enough money to buy more parts and a small profit.I wouldn`t even think about charging a lot for them because I knew that they were not worth it and because there were not that many people building,bad work stood out more easily.Jim Chambers would threaten me with a bodily harm if I didn`stop giving them away,but I just felt that they were not good enough yet and I would not have been able to get top dollar for them even if I wanted to..Now there are thousands of people out there that has taken a class and concider themselves top gunsmiths and they all have web sites.They also think that they should be receiving top dollar for work that in all honesty,should be sold for parts money.Some out there will be saying that their time is worth as much as anybody else's,but in this trade,quality plays a very big part in what something is worth,not just the time invested in it.I was trolling the other night trying to find something about Isaac Haines and you wouldn`t believe how many sites popped up showing what they thought was Haines rifles that they had built,and 95% of them had nothing that even remotely resembled one of his guns and what they had made wasn`t very good work.To a casual buyer though that happen upon one of these sites,they would think that these were the best things that they had ever seen.

Offline smart dog

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Re: Mediocrity
« Reply #38 on: February 14, 2013, 11:11:58 PM »
Hi,
The problem is that you guys need to move to Lake Wobegon, where the women are strong, the men good looking, and all the gunmakers are above average.

dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: Mediocrity
« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2013, 11:43:25 PM »
I suspect that the irritating factor here is some feeling that occurs when seeing a piece of mediocre
workmanship sell for high prices then triggers an inner cord that says....I am not being fairly compensated for
my level of skills and the time and sacrifice that went into gaining them?  That I can appreciate.  Don't hate
the guy who made and sold the mediocrity.  He may have developed some other skills which permitted him
to get the most for his work.  Perhaps he is good at identifying his market or is persuasive in his
negotiations.  Just thinking out loud.
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Mediocrity
« Reply #40 on: February 15, 2013, 12:43:28 AM »
I can't get Simon and Garfunkel's "Homeward Bound" out of my head since reading this thread. 

"All my words come back to me,
in shades of mediocrity
Like emptiness and harmony
I need someone to comfort me.

Homeward bound, I wish I was...."

OK, back on topic.  The level of building has increased so much since the late 1970's when i first became aware of the custom longrifle.  Back then there were some fine builders but they were scarce compared to today.  There were plenty of builders back then with limited access to originals in hand or in print, and many custom guns of that era show it.

Also, fine kits are now available that make it possible for folks with limited experience and skill to make many different styles of custom longrifles that, to the neophyte buyer, seem very glamorous and sophisticated.

Couple things at play here.  There are vendors who sell custom work and price and value them very oddly.  Others generally know what's what.  Guns sold on consignment at Dixon's would generally be ranked, price-wise, in an order that custom builders would understand.

Then there are fads and plain good luck in figuring out what will sell.  At the CLA auctions, donated accoutrements and guns can sell for half or double what I'd expect.
Andover, Vermont

Offline pathfinder

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Re: Mediocrity
« Reply #41 on: February 15, 2013, 12:46:53 AM »
I suspect that the irritating factor here is some feeling that occurs when seeing a piece of mediocre
workmanship sell for high prices then triggers an inner cord that says....I am not being fairly compensated for
my level of skills and the time and sacrifice that went into gaining them?  That I can appreciate.  Don't hate
the guy who made and sold the mediocrity.  He may have developed some other skills which permitted him
to get the most for his work.  Perhaps he is good at identifying his market or is persuasive in his
negotiations.  Just thinking out loud.

It comes down to integrity. Some have it,some dont. I'd like to think I'm not one of those guy's who takes $400.00 worth of part's,build's a $300.00 gun,and askes $1,800.00!

And I agree with others here Mike,hold off on your price increase untill AT LEAST August!
Not all baby turtles make to the sea!  Darwinism. It’s works!

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Mediocrity
« Reply #42 on: February 15, 2013, 02:23:14 AM »
I think green grass and leaves on the trees would improve my attitude. ;)
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

gizamo

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Re: Mediocrity
« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2013, 02:35:00 AM »
$#*! Mike...

You got nothin to complain about.  First off, I still insist you are a cradle robber....seen that pic of some old geezer next to a beautiful lady.....   ;D

Go buy yourself a 45/110 and see if your mood doesn't improve.

Giz

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Mediocrity
« Reply #44 on: February 15, 2013, 02:56:39 AM »

Quote
Go buy yourself a 45/110 and see if your mood doesn't improve.
As long as it goes 16 to 18 lbs I'd be a happy boy. ;D
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

gizamo

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Re: Mediocrity
« Reply #45 on: February 15, 2013, 03:55:11 AM »
Ok,...Ok...

45/90 it is than ...

Heck, see how easy that was...  Smile, you old Codger.  You are once again invited to the Spring Vous of The Ancient Ones up in Maine.

$#*!, that would make anyone smile... Simple minded folks like me, anyways...


Might actually get you shootin' serious again.  ;D

Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: Mediocrity
« Reply #46 on: February 15, 2013, 04:47:09 AM »
I suspect that the irritating factor here is some feeling that occurs when seeing a piece of mediocre
workmanship sell for high prices then triggers an inner cord that says....I am not being fairly compensated for
my level of skills and the time and sacrifice that went into gaining them?  That I can appreciate.  Don't hate
the guy who made and sold the mediocrity.  He may have developed some other skills which permitted him
to get the most for his work.  Perhaps he is good at identifying his market or is persuasive in his
negotiations.  Just thinking out loud.

   

It comes down to integrity. Some have it,some dont. I'd like to think I'm not one of those guy's who takes $400.00 worth of part's,build's a $300.00 gun,and askes $1,800.00!

And I agree with others here Mike,hold off on your price increase untill AT LEAST August!

 
   When a willing seller meets a willing buyer and they agree on a sale. Neithers integrity should be challenged. I'm confident that i paid significantly more for a couple Shreckengost rifles than anyone else on this forum would have paid. To you it may be foolish,but not to me.   If a man sells his mediocre rifle for a high price, the buyer had all the opportunity in the world not to buy it.  The beauty of capitalism.  No one in modern times has been forced to buy a longrifle he didnt want
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline Osprey

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Re: Mediocrity
« Reply #47 on: February 15, 2013, 05:36:33 AM »
These days I usually find fishing, hunting, or shooting a more satisfying past time....uh oh, sounds like burn out...... :o

That's not burn out, that's just realizing you've got a job!  Heck, huntin' is better than sex, it's gotta be better than building guns.   ;D
"Any gun built is incomplete until it takes game!"

Offline pathfinder

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Re: Mediocrity
« Reply #48 on: February 15, 2013, 06:38:19 AM »


   




 
 I'm confident that i paid significantly more for a couple Shreckengost rifles than anyone else on this forum would have paid. [/quote]

Buying originals is in a different realm than a builder selling his wares. I think all  of us here at one time or another has bought something for more than the market value because it was "in our wheel house". That's different than an unwelted,unlined 2 piece bag with a non adjustable strap going for $180.00.

I better stop,this is a very slippery slope!
Not all baby turtles make to the sea!  Darwinism. It’s works!

Offline TMerkley

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Re: Mediocrity
« Reply #49 on: February 15, 2013, 07:04:49 AM »
These days I usually find fishing, hunting, or shooting a more satisfying past time....uh oh, sounds like burn out......


Just means that it's winter and you've been couped up inside too long.  Time for some warmer weather and sunshine. ;D ;D