Author Topic: removing the breech plug,or not (Read 11552 times)

yip · « **on:** February 20, 2013, 11:21:25 PM »

i'm gonna inlet a new colrain "a" profile 40 cal swamped in a stock blank, is it easier to inlet the barrel with the breech plug in or out? i have done this job before and always removed the breech plug, i was told by a friend to do it with the plug in. which would be the best?

draken · « **Reply #1 on:** February 20, 2013, 11:34:12 PM »

Just going by my limited experience, I've found it easier to get the barrel properly set in with the breech plug removed. However, there are far more experienced builders on here, and there is more than one way to skin the proverbial cat. $:-\$

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #2 on:** February 20, 2013, 11:36:42 PM »

Either way works fine.

mark esterly · « **Reply #3 on:** February 21, 2013, 01:03:15 AM »

here we go again

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #4 on:** February 21, 2013, 03:27:13 AM »

Leaving it in makes handling the barrel easier, but more difficult to get a nice tight tang inlet, for me anyway. I take the plug out, and then once the barrel is in, I return it to the barrel and inlet the tang.

yip · « **Reply #5 on:** February 21, 2013, 04:12:59 AM »

thats the way i always did it , but it got me thinking

Dr. Tim-Boone · « **Reply #6 on:** February 21, 2013, 04:14:50 AM »

A dangerous thing to do in my shop............thinking

Long John · « **Reply #7 on:** February 21, 2013, 06:17:08 PM »

Every barrel I have ever received, regardless of vendor, has needed final fitting of the breech plug. The plug face needs to be smoothed and polished and that triggers the need to refit the plug, usually necessitating rotating the barrel one additional flat. Once I have done all that I find it easier to let the barrel in without the plug first. Then I reinstall the plug and let in the tang. I am not of the skill level of some of the other respondents to this post so what I have to do might not be what they find necessary.

Best Regards,

John Cholin

Roger Fisher · « **Reply #8 on:** February 21, 2013, 06:27:02 PM »

Quote from: Long John on February 21, 2013, 06:17:08 PM

Every barrel I have ever received, regardless of vendor, has needed final fitting of the breech plug. The plug face needs to be smoothed and polished and that triggers the need to refit the plug, usually necessitating rotating the barrel one additional flat. Once I have done all that I find it easier to let the barrel in without the plug first. Then I reinstall the plug and let in the tang. I am not of the skill level of some of the other respondents to this post so what I have to do might not be what they find necessary.

Best Regards,

John Cholin

Good ol John makes certain to avoid that fouling on to the plug down the road is kept to a minimum!

rich pierce · « **Reply #9 on:** February 21, 2013, 06:57:31 PM »

Just make sure you file some serious draft on the plug body. Some of them don't taper at all, and it makes it harder to get a good fit right at the barrel/tang junction.

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #10 on:** February 21, 2013, 07:37:46 PM »

Tips from old gun builders: When I send a barrel to be inlet, I remove the plug, and store it in my shop in a safe place. When it comes time to inlet the tang, I have long forgotten where I put the plug.

to echo Long John, I fit plug to barrel to my liking before inletting the tang in the stock. What Rich sez on filing a draw taper on the tang, makes it easier to inlet, and when dis-assembling the gun later in life, less chipping around the inlet occurs.

Cory Joe Stewart · « **Reply #11 on:** February 21, 2013, 10:05:59 PM »

As mentioned above the plug does need to be removed to polish the surface of it. You can inlet the barrel without it, but DO NOT inlet the tang without the plug being installed in the barrel. Don't ask me how I know this.

Coryjoe

Danny H. · « **Reply #12 on:** February 21, 2013, 11:16:15 PM »

Acer, thanks for a laugh. The one I just replaced is in a place so safe, I cant even find it. Nice to know even the pro's share that woe.

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #13 on:** February 21, 2013, 11:36:08 PM »

In an idea world, if you can organize yourself, like I know what I'm talking about, you'd have the breech plug fit and polished before you install it in the gun.

How I learned: I had the bbl inlet, the tenons in, pinned, tang inlet, etc. When I drilled for touch hole and liner, I removed the plug for deburring the liner hole on the inside. Much to my dismay, I found the plug was short of the bore by 1/16". I decided to solder a shim on the face of the plug, rather than set barrel back 1/16".

So now I fit my plugs before the barrel gets inlet.

mark esterly · « **Reply #14 on:** February 22, 2013, 01:44:12 AM »

plug face smoothed and polished?

c,mon are we shooting the same goex black powder?
my breechplug face is as shiny as the day purchased ( no foolin') and i clean with only COLD WATER.
don't get me wrong now i'm not saying you shouldn't if you want to. only that you don't NEED to.

Brian Jordan · « **Reply #15 on:** February 22, 2013, 05:35:39 PM »

Quote from: Acer Saccharum on February 21, 2013, 11:36:08 PM

So now I fit my plugs before the barrel gets inlet.

This brings up a question. The first thing you do is fit, or check the fit of your breech plug. After this is complete do you then remove the plug to inlet the barrel? If you were to scribe reference marks on the plug and barrel you would be able to reinstall the plug after the barrel was let in refering to these marks...correct?

Roger Fisher · « **Reply #16 on:** February 22, 2013, 06:23:48 PM »

Similar to inletting the lock all at once rather than layer by layer... Some guys can but most of us better not!

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #17 on:** February 22, 2013, 07:27:14 PM »

Quote from: melsdad on February 22, 2013, 05:35:39 PM

This brings up a question. The first thing you do is fit, or check the fit of your breech plug. After this is complete do you then remove the plug to inlet the barrel? If you were to scribe reference marks on the plug and barrel you would be able to reinstall the plug after the barrel was let in refering to these marks...correct?

I'm not going to say you have to do this in a certain way.

I do things my way, because in the end, my finished product is the best quality I can produce with the least amount of doing things twice. If I get out of sequence, say I leave the barrel plug fitting until the very last, after my barrel is all pinned in place, I might find I have to set my barrel back 1/16". I make more work for myself by getting out of sequence.

And, yes, make index mark on the bottom flat. You can take the plug out and inlet the BBL, then re-install the plug, and inlet the tang. Once the lock is set, and the touch hole located, you'll want to take the plug out again to clean up the machining burrs on the inside. Maybe you want to inside cone the touch hole, maybe install a liner. All of this work requires that the plug come in and out several times during the build.

Shootrj2003 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 23, 2013, 06:16:17 AM »

I am gonna step out on a limb here a show my inexperience, but I have tried to remove exactly two breech plugs one was my Thompson Center. Renegade ,never budged ,and seeing as how I didn't have to,I only wanted too I never did,the other is a 1800-1830 ish half stock fowler I 'm restocking it came out witha minimum of effort,I am looking to my Gpr next again,because I want to be able to,what am I missing here - what is necessary to safel remove a tight fitting breech plugs,And reinstall it,I can,and I am capable,$#*!,I can tear down a Harley,I just haven't pulled a tight breech plug,how do we?

docone · « **Reply #19 on:** February 23, 2013, 06:32:39 AM »

Some of those breeches are not designed to be removed easily. CVA comes to mind, Traditions also. With a drum, the drum is semi inlet into the breechplug. It locks it in place. I think you might twist the end of the barrel on the GPR, same with The Renegade.
They are not like the original rifles, or ones hand made. They are really torqued on the barrel. If they have a drum, you gotta remove that first.
I went that route. I ended up just letting them be.

Bob Roller · « **Reply #20 on:** February 23, 2013, 04:44:02 PM »

Some of the earlier TC's had the breech plug installed by using a long
bar and turning the plug until it DID line up.This frequently made for
a plug than is impossible to get out and in some cases,a fracture thru the last
thread on the plug that was a real hazard.I have a TC breech plug still in the
short section of barrel that one of my friends tried to remove.The friend was
a runt at 6'8"and 365 pounds and even with a large crescent wrench,he couldn't
move that plug. I cut it off with a horizontal bandsaw and then gave the barrel
to another friend who made pipe tomahawks out of it. Don't feel bad about not
being able to get that plug out,you are in good company and while I never tore a Harley
engine down I have in my mispent youth torn down several Model "J"Duesenberg car
engines.

Bob Roller

Shootrj2003 · « **Reply #21 on:** February 24, 2013, 01:14:43 AM »

Sweet,I love old tech,Itry not to go into computer age stuff mine is a 77 .

Dphariss · « **Reply #22 on:** February 24, 2013, 06:00:34 PM »

Quote from: Bob Roller on February 23, 2013, 04:44:02 PM

Some of the earlier TC's had the breech plug installed by using a long
bar and turning the plug until it DID line up.This frequently made for
a plug than is impossible to get out and in some cases,a fracture thru the last
thread on the plug that was a real hazard.I have a TC breech plug still in the
short section of barrel that one of my friends tried to remove.The friend was
a runt at 6'8"and 365 pounds and even with a large crescent wrench,he couldn't
move that plug. I cut it off with a horizontal bandsaw and then gave the barrel
to another friend who made pipe tomahawks out of it. Don't feel bad about not
being able to get that plug out,you are in good company and while I never tore a Harley
engine down I have in my mispent youth torn down several Model "J"Duesenberg car
engines.

Bob Roller

I had heard from what came into the old Buckskin Report that they were machine installed. Some would break off when removal was attempted due to excessive stretching of the rebated part of the plug. In any event few were removable.
Dan

Long John · « **Reply #23 on:** February 26, 2013, 05:21:03 AM »

Some while back I was asked to free-up a plugged-up breech on a 32 cal TC Seneca rifle that had an obstructed breech. I tried to get that breech off but it wouldn't budge. I played a torch on the breech to try to get the metal expand some. That's when the load finally lit-off. Surprized me some.

The heat from the torch made a spot show up on the breech that appeared to be a threaded cross-pin that had been sanded/buffed flush and flat and invisible after bluing. I don't KNOW for sure that they are cross-pinned but it wouldn't surprise me.

As for regular breech plugs, I just pulled one off a barrel from a nationally known maker to get it ready for let-in. It is all fitted nice and pretty with a match mark cut. The only problem is the face of the breech plug is 1/8 inch shy of the shoulder inside the breech end of the barrel. Somebody had a bad day at the barrel shop! Now its my problem to fix.

Some might think that refitting isn't "necessary" but if a rifle is going to have my name whittled on the top flat of the barrel that breech face will be polished to 1500 grit and show nice even color all the way around upon fitting.

Best Regards,

John Cholin

Shootrj2003 · « **Reply #24 on:** February 26, 2013, 07:31:46 AM »

When I did the attempt I also noticed what initially I thought looked like a flat head screw partially sanded off ,I think back behind the snail,At the time, the thought of a cross pin of some type had occurred to me ,but never having heard of it being done,I dismissed it as some kind of machine mark or something,now I am thinking a cross pin screw finished off to hide it,I'll have to dig out my renegade and barrels and look at both barrels for it-I have a .50 and a.54 bbl.

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Author Topic: removing the breech plug,or not (Read 11552 times)

Danny H.

Shootrj2003

docone

Shootrj2003

Shootrj2003