Please help me identify this Original Barrel/Rifle

[BrushCountryAg03]

Howdy Everyone

As the Subject states, I am in need of some expert opinion as to what rifle this barrel might have come off of.  A friend of mine has commissioned me to "restore" this barrel and rebuild the rifle using any available hardware, lock,  & stock I can find. 

The story of this barrel:  In the late 1800's, my friend's family from England came over and originally settled in Zavala, Co Texas.  As the story goes, some of his much older family members always told him that this barrel came off of what was then called a "Citizen's Rifle" in England.  Eventually, it was given to the kids to play around with since in no longer functioned and eventually ended up under one of the ranch houses with nothing left but the barrel and a partially unscrewed breech.

Judging by the short barrel length, an approximate caliber of ~.46", the two dovetails cut very close together to hold the lugs, & the presence of what's left of the under rib, it is my guess that it was originally what's known as an "ENGLISH  SPORTING RIFLE".

If my assumptions are correct, I am proposing to build this rifle as a "half-stock" on a good piece of Walnut.  If it is deemed "usable", I really would like to have the barrel bored out, re-rifled, & re-crowned and either salvage the breech of have it removed and another milled out with a matching tang, along with an appropriate lock, buttplate, trigger guard, hardware, etc.

Any help, thoughts, opinions, etc. would be most graciously appreciated!!!



P.S.  I am willing to pay for any barrel/breech work on this project, if it is offered, and will ship it A.S.A.P.

Thanks,

Will

[Majorjoel]

Will, just from your pictures of this English rifle barrel,  about all I can tell you you already know. You say it has a second barrel lug that is close to the one showing? The English sporting rifle is of the type that the Hawken brothers drew their ideas for that famous halfstock rifle. The New England halfstock rifle and fowler was also inspired by this English design. Before you get started going to all of the trouble restocking this barrel I would clean it up and see if there are any British proof marks or other identifying features. Just to be sure it is what it is supposed to be. I think I would also find a new barrel made to the specs of your original and mounted to the new stock for shooting purposes. And keeping the old barrel for mounting for display and family pride of history. I believe it would be cheaper and definitely safer to do it this way.

[Michael]

Nice to see someone else with a neat workbench 

[Bob Roller]

It probably is the mortal remains of an English sporting rifle. The 45 or 46 caliber bore
means it may be a barrel for a bullet.Can you determine the twist of rifling? TOW can
most likely furnish butt plate,trigger guard and lock for this project and a good piece of walnut
should be available from several sources. The R.E.Davis lock would be the correct style for this.
I have serious doubts about the breech plug being restorable but again,TOW can probably come
up with a proper one.

Bob Roller

[James Wilson Everett]

Guys,

This is a response that was posted previously in the discussion of a rifle barrel liner, it may be useful for the restoration of this barrel.

T.J.'s  3652 Neltner Road, Alexandria, KY 41001, (859) 635-5560, Mike Sayers, President.  These guys make a large selection of hammer forged liners for modern calibers from 0.17 to 0.50, about 40 different ones.  For muzzle loaders they make a 0.460 bore/0.476 groove, 1-48, 5/8 OD and a 0.510 bore/0.532 groove, 1-48, 11/16 OD.  I used the 0.510 liner and was very pleased with the result as seen in the photos above.  T.J.'s sells these for $3.75 per inch.  I believe that Track of the Wolf sells these also, but at a higher price.  Obviously the price of the liner will exceed the price of a new barrel, so it only makes sense to line only the most valuable barrels, line the really cool twist iron barrel, above.

These are uncomplicated to install by just boring out the barrel to 5/8 and installing the liner with slow set epoxy.

Jim

[rich pierce]

I like MajorJoel's advice.  That way you can have your cake and eat it too.

[Habu]

Nice to see someone else with a neat workbench 

He hasn't started building yet. . . .

[Dphariss]

Looks American to me. Barrel is pretty heavy for an English rifle.
Many makers of the east cost were making rifles and guns that were very English influenced by the time this was made.
But at this point its hard to tell.
Does it have any indentations indicating proof marks?

Dan

[BrushCountryAg03]

Howdy everyone, I apologize for not responding to everyone's comments thus far...I've kinda had some health problems going on.  I've decided to send the barrel off to someone I've had a lot of experience with in the past to get the breech plug removed, clean & drill out/re-thread the nipple, and have the barrel bored out and re-rifled or at least that's the plan anyways.

Thanks again for everyone's thoughts & opinions, I always love hearing from y'all.

[Don Getz]

I guess we have all learned by doing something, be it right or wrong.    To me it is just a piece of iron, looks like it held up a
tomato plant.  I think it will require a new breech plug, will require bore work, be it a new liner, or a re-bore and rifle job.
After that is all done, what about the outside of the barrel, it will have to be cleaned up, draw filed, refinished somehow.
It is something I would not consider doing unless it has some real family value.........Don

[Dphariss]

Howdy everyone, I apologize for not responding to everyone's comments thus far...I've kinda had some health problems going on.  I've decided to send the barrel off to someone I've had a lot of experience with in the past to get the breech plug removed, clean & drill out/re-thread the nipple, and have the barrel bored out and re-rifled or at least that's the plan anyways.

Thanks again for everyone's thoughts & opinions, I always love hearing from y'all.

Waste of time and money for what is a relic. The threads are likely so damaged as to make the breech useless.
Its easier to buy a new barrel and leave this one as a relic.
Dan

[Paul Griffith]

I'm with Mr Getz. Tough to turn that into a silk purse.

Paul

[BrushCountryAg03]

I hear what y'all are saying and you're all right however, in this case, there is quite a lot of sentimental value placed on this barrel by its owner and I've gotta try even though it may not work out in the end.