Author Topic: buying muzzle loader from Canada  (Read 6309 times)

Offline k varga

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buying muzzle loader from Canada
« on: February 27, 2013, 04:38:06 PM »
what would i have to go through to have a gun (muzzle loader) shipped from Canada to me in the USA.

Online Longknife

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Re: buying muzzle loader from Canada
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2013, 05:44:40 PM »
« Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 05:45:00 PM by Longknife »
Ed Hamberg

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: buying muzzle loader from Canada
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2013, 07:29:55 PM »
I've sent muzzle loading guns many times from British Columbia to the USA.  I make a wooden crate lined with foam and send the gun as "Antique Flintlock" via Canada Post, and subsequently, USPS.  Do not put any reference to "Gun" or "Firearm" on the shipping info, though that should not make a difference.  For example, the mail in Canada is the ONLY way to send a handgun.

On both occasions that I submitted rifles to Dixon's Gunmaker's Fayre, I simply mailed my rifle to either Chuck Dixon, or to my buddy Tom in NY, attended the show, and then mailed it back to myself.  Shipping from Canada to US cost me ~ $75 CDN and to send it back home cost ~ $55 USD.  Comes with tracking number and no hassle.

This year I'll be sending a pistol grip Hawken to Alaska, and have no qualms about it at all.
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline T*O*F

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Re: buying muzzle loader from Canada
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2013, 02:28:57 AM »
I agree with Taylor.  The page that Longknife referenced does not apply, since ML's are specfically exempted as "non-firearms" in the US.

The problem was shipping from the US to Canada, but is easier now since they revised their laws.  The Pedersoli double that I recently sent to LeatherBelly went thru with no problems.
Dave Kanger

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Online Longknife

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Re: buying muzzle loader from Canada
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2013, 07:30:49 PM »
I\
I agree with Taylor.  The page that Longknife referenced does not apply, since ML's are specfically exempted as "non-firearms" in the US.

The problem was shipping from the US to Canada, but is easier now since they revised their laws.  The Pedersoli double that I recently sent to LeatherBelly went thru with no problems.


TOF.... I know that M-loaders are Non firearms in the USA and can be shipped according to the BTAF. But SOME areas have restrictions on M-loaders and do not abide by the BATF rules. So I still recommend to contact the government agency and they can tell you how to procede. It is beneficial to get the "official"  word of the government agency instead of an "unofficial" opinion on a forum...better safe than sorry........ED  
« Last Edit: February 28, 2013, 08:02:25 PM by Longknife »
Ed Hamberg

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: buying muzzle loader from Canada
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2013, 09:21:02 PM »
If you go the route that Longrifle advises, I'd get it in writing with a real person's signature.  Often government agencies disagree with one another, and often, the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing.  For example, I carry a print out of the laws pertaining to transporting firearms, issued by the Chief Firearm's Officer of BC, in my truck at all times.  Then when I am stopped, in a routine check for example, by a game warden, or a young inexperienced police person who thinks I'm in violation and wants to seize my stuff, I can show them the law.  It's never happened to me personally, but I know of instances when carrying the information would have saved a lot of grief.
So to recap, get it in writing, and know the law yourself.
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Online Longknife

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Re: buying muzzle loader from Canada
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2013, 07:20:42 PM »
If you go the route that Longrifle advises, I'd get it in writing with a real person's signature.  Often government agencies disagree with one another, and often, the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing.  For example, I carry a print out of the laws pertaining to transporting firearms, issued by the Chief Firearm's Officer of BC, in my truck at all times.  Then when I am stopped, in a routine check for example, by a game warden, or a young inexperienced police person who thinks I'm in violation and wants to seize my stuff, I can show them the law.  It's never happened to me personally, but I know of instances when carrying the information would have saved a lot of grief.
So to recap, get it in writing, and know the law yourself.


Best advice yet!!!!!!!



Taylor, Is there a website where I can find the Canadian firearms  import/export laws?
« Last Edit: March 01, 2013, 07:24:15 PM by Longknife »
Ed Hamberg

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: buying muzzle loader from Canada
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2013, 08:08:18 PM »
I'll see what I can unearth.
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline Duane Harshaw

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Re: buying muzzle loader from Canada
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2013, 12:01:36 AM »
I have shipped to the U.S and have received from the U.S.Taylor is absolutley correct in what he said.There should know problem at all.
Coaldale Alberta Canada

Dean2

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Re: buying muzzle loader from Canada
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2013, 06:44:23 PM »
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/index-eng.htm

http://cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/pub/bsf5044-eng.html

Flintlock long arms are not, and never were a registered firearm in Canada. You do not even need a PAL to own them. From the Canadian perspective, there should be no issues mailing flintlocks from or to Canada.

As far as percussion guns, these are considered a Firearm in Canada, but the are no restrictions on importing long guns from any country, whether ML or centrefire, nor have there been. The only issue has been shipping centrefire long guns from the U.S. to Canada due to U.S. export restrictions. As long as MLs are not considered firearms in the U.S. then there is no problem here.

As to sending guns to the US. We can mail any long gun via Canada post so as long as it gets past US customs it will come direct to you. Hope the lonks help.

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: buying muzzle loader from Canada
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2013, 12:39:46 AM »
i will relay this experience that i had about 4 years ago.

I found two US made percussion muzzleloaders for sale in Canada that I wanted to buy them when I visited my cousin who lives in Canada. I was concerned about bringing them back across the border. The owner bought them both back in the 70's but had no paperwork of the sale. i called the local customs telephone number to find out and some smart alec woman customs officer told me that the only way I could bring them back to the US would be to have a statement from the company that they were made in the US. I explained that they were built circa 1840's and the builders were dead! She repeated the only way I could bring them into the country was to have proof that they were US made guns and if they were made by one man he had to give me written statement that he built them in the US! I hung up on her.

When I crossed the border going into Canada I stopped and asked the Canadian custom officers and they said no problem with them. On the way back I had the rifles in the trunk in gun sleeves, I had a bill of sale and a written letter from the seller that he had bought them in the US and that they were US made guns, also a catalog that showed photos of one of the rifles being offered for sale from a US company (where owner purchased it). I was scared that I was going to have a hard time at the border but I was convinced they were legal. Got up to the custom officer and he asked if I had anything to declare, I nervously started explaining about the two rifles in the trunk. He said open the trunk, I was shaking, I handed him one of the guns, he said no, take it out (we were standing in the midst of all the summer tourist waiting to get back in the US). I pulled it out, he takes it and says wait here and runs across the lanes of traffic into the office building. In less than 3 min he ruturns, hands me the rifle and says have a good day! Never even looked at the second rifle and never asked me about anything else in the packed trunk!

Dennis
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Offline Bob Hatfield

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Re: buying muzzle loader from Canada
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2013, 01:49:00 PM »
Could a person take the gun apart and place the parts in different boxes throughout his car and call them scrap "Parts"?  Especially if there is no serial numbers?  Pins in baggy in my suitcase. Barrel is the crowbar for my bumper jack. Stock is firewood in case I get stuck in the Canadian wilderness and have to build a fire.  I know border agents aint dumb, but what constitutes a percusssion muzzleloader being a weapon. The lock? :Leave the lock in Canada and buy a new one in the US?

In other words when does a pile of parts become a gun. When it is capable of being shot?

Bob

Dean2

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Re: buying muzzle loader from Canada
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2013, 03:45:41 PM »
Could a person take the gun apart and place the parts in different boxes throughout his car and call them scrap "Parts"?  Especially if there is no serial numbers?  Pins in baggy in my suitcase. Barrel is the crowbar for my bumper jack. Stock is firewood in case I get stuck in the Canadian wilderness and have to build a fire.  I know border agents aint dumb, but what constitutes a percusssion muzzleloader being a weapon. The lock? :Leave the lock in Canada and buy a new one in the US?

In other words when does a pile of parts become a gun. When it is capable of being shot?

Bob


You are missing the point entirely. Shipping the gun out of Canada to the U.S., whether percussion or flint in no problem at all. Canadian law does not care what we send to you or bring in from anywhere, as long as it is a long arm, centrefire or muzzle loader, makes no difference.

The problem is, and always has been dumb U.S. export and import laws. The only question is U.S. entry and from what I understand, U.S. law says all muzzle loaders and reproductions thereof are not firearms, so there should be zero problems taking one back from Canada fully assembled. If it is a problem, do you want to take a chance on getting tagged for gun smuggling, rather than being straight up and dealing with the Custom agents lack of knowledge.