Rust bluing and an unprotected bore.

[razor62]

I recently finished an underhammer project and part of the process was to rust blue my barreled action. I opted not to coat the bore with any type of protectant for fear of contminating my surfaces and I neglected to clean the bore until a couple of days after the bluing had been completed.
When I did clean the bore I found an abundance of the "velvet" that one needs to card away had completely covered the bore of my barrel. I spent hours cleaning and still my patches show slight signs of grime. The worst part of it is that there appears to be some light pitting as well. Did I ruin my barrel before ever even firing it? Has this ever happened to anyone else? Or, Am I making a mountain of an anthill?

[tallbear]

Razor
With out seeing it I won't take a guess about the worthiness of your barrel.An easy way to avoid this next time is to coat the inside of your barrel with lacquer next time.It is easily washed out with thinner after the bluing process.(Thank you Jerry Huddleston )

Mitch Yates

[Dphariss]

I recently finished an underhammer project and part of the process was to rust blue my barreled action. I opted not to coat the bore with any type of protectant for fear of contminating my surfaces and I neglected to clean the bore until a couple of days after the bluing had been completed.
When I did clean the bore I found an abundance of the "velvet" that one needs to card away had completely covered the bore of my barrel. I spent hours cleaning and still my patches show slight signs of grime. The worst part of it is that there appears to be some light pitting as well. Did I ruin my barrel before ever even firing it? Has this ever happened to anyone else? Or, Am I making a mountain of an anthill?

It does not happen to me because I PLUG THE BORE with wooden plugs. As is mentioned in all the writting on the process. After boiling remove the plugs while the barrel is still hot, wipe the bore with a lightly oiled patch getting NO oil on the exterior then drive in new plugs before rusting the barrel again.

Chances are its going to foul worse than it would have if you had properly protected the bore.

Dan

[Dphariss]

Also some JB Bore Compound used as directed in the jar may help.
The advantage to rust blue is that it does not put $#@* in the bore like hot tank bluing does.

Dan

[razor62]

I plugged the bore at the muzzle but I assumed that if I had attempted to plug the nipple hole that my muzzle plug would blow out due to the expanding air trapped in the barrel.
It was stupid of me to overlook the simple step of oiling that bore as soon as it had dried. I sped the drying time with a heat gun each time that I removed the barrel form the boil. I was surprised by how dirty it had become from just boiling water. The bore was never exposed to the rusting agent but only the boiling water.
I soaked it with a penetrating oil and I'll spend some more time cleaning it and hope for the best.

[keweenaw]

I've rust blued a lot of guns including centerfire rifles without either harming the bore or plugging it.  (I figure that if a 6.5x55 or 280 will shoot 1/2" groups at 100 yds and not foul after my rust bluing that I couldn't have done much harm in to the bore.)  The trick is to lightly oil the bore before you start and to be careful not to get any degreaser in it when you're degreasing the outside.  The very  first thing you do when you pull the barrel out of the boiling water is to run a loose fitting dry patch through it.  That way the bore will dry instantly and the water really won't take out the oil on the surface.  A big mistake is to plug one end of the bore as that traps the water and it can't steam dry.  I've never found any need to speed the drying on a barrel, it has so much mass that it holds the heat to dry in a few seconds if you hang it vertically.  Small parts get a good shaking and are blown on a bit to get water off.

Scrub the snot out of your bore with some 0000 oiled steel wool wrapped around your jag and then with a tight fitting patch and JB bore cleaner.  It will probably come out quite acceptable.

Tom

[kutter]

+1 what snyder says. I've done hundreds of bbls and parts and other than doing damascus bbl finishes, have never coated the bores.

The rust blue soln that you're using will disolve off of the rusted bbls and parts & into the water in the tank.
You have to keep that in mind. Some are more corrosive than others and the boiling temp of the water can aggrivate the situation.

It's usually never a problem if the bore(s) are wiped clear when the bbls are taken out of the tank.
I just use plain clear hot water dampened patches down the bore(s),,a couple each after the carding and before the next coating to clear out any residue so it doesn't sit in there over the next rusting session..

The effects of the diluted rusting soln in the tank water is easily seen in placing a polished piece of steel in the water while doing a quick rust blue job. With out ever placing any blueing soln on that polished piece and just letting it sit in the water while you go about rust bluing another project,,it will take on a very nice deep gray color that can be enhanced and evened out by occasional cardings right along with the rest of the parts. It's being etched by the tiny amt of ferric chloride (or what ever other corrosive chemical) is in the bluing solution.
If that small steel piece was taken out of the tank and allowed to sit untouched,,it will rust just like a shotgun or rifle bore will even though it never had a coating of bluing soln applied.

Dunked into and then taken out of and dryed,,then wiped clear of any reside with clean water water,,it'll remain unharmed. Perhaps a bit discolored,,but easily brightened up like the bore with w quick pass or two with the right brush.

[Dphariss]

I plugged the bore at the muzzle but I assumed that if I had attempted to plug the nipple hole that my muzzle plug would blow out due to the expanding air trapped in the barrel.
It was stupid of me to overlook the simple step of oiling that bore as soon as it had dried. I sped the drying time with a heat gun each time that I removed the barrel form the boil. I was surprised by how dirty it had become from just boiling water. The bore was never exposed to the rusting agent but only the boiling water.
I soaked it with a penetrating oil and I'll spend some more time cleaning it and hope for the best.

The air will vent out through the wooden plugs.
If you use an acidic rusting solution it will FUME into the bore from any hole.
I use a solution made of Nitric and Hydrochloric acid.  And I fume as well.
I find the nitric in the solution gives a nicer blue, especially on 4150.
Oiling the bore then transferring it to boiling water unplugged may put an oil film on the water which will then be transferred to the barrel when its pulled from the water. Also I never reuse the water but use fresh every time.
I would also point out that smokeless powder guns are not BP guns and a slight "tooth" in a BP barrel will make it far harder to clean and increase the fouling retention in the bore.

People who do browning and bluing should have Angier's book. If not for the formulas, rusting steel is easy, but for the processes.

Dan

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Dan, do you change the water for each boil during the rust bluing of a single barrel?  Or do you use the same water for the whole bluing process of that one barrel?  I've done it both ways without obvious preference to either method.

[Dphariss]

Dan, do you change the water for each boil during the rust bluing of a single barrel?  Or do you use the same water for the whole bluing process of that one barrel?  I've done it both ways without obvious preference to either method.

Change it every time I boil the barrel. I use tap water (creek water here) and aerate it when I run it in the bucket.
I wish a chemist would check in with exactly how boiling converts red iron oxide on a barrel to black iron oxide.
I have used both tap and distilled water and cannot see a difference.

Dan

[wilkie]

I tried useing Brownells dicropan im rust bluing with boiling water but had trouble with contaminents in the tap water.  Next I tried it without boiling water and it worked just fine.  Polish, degrease, apply im bluing solution with a tooth brush, let set about i day, use steel wool to remove surface rust, repeat application.  Usually takes 5 or 6 coats.  If its glossy to start with it will end glossy.  Wait about a day after last coat and oil.

[razor62]

Thanks folks for all of the tips. I'll certainly know what NOT to do next time. I will pat myself on the back at least for the fact that the rust blued steel came out near perfect at least on the outside . Like Bill Crystal may have said...." It is better to look good than to shoot good."    NOT!!!!!

I've had the bore well coated with oil for a few days. I'll have another go at it tomorrow ( day off ). I did try 0000 steel wool as snyder suggested however it didn't seem to be aggressive enough. I'm considering using a red " Scotch Brite " pad on a cleaning rod to try and polish the bore back smooth. Anyone thing this is a bad idea? Will I do more harm than good???

[Roger Fisher]

I've rust blued a lot of guns including centerfire rifles without either harming the bore or plugging it.  (I figure that if a 6.5x55 or 280 will shoot 1/2" groups at 100 yds and not foul after my rust bluing that I couldn't have done much harm in to the bore.)  The trick is to lightly oil the bore before you start and to be careful not to get any degreaser in it when you're degreasing the outside.  The very  first thing you do when you pull the barrel out of the boiling water is to run a loose fitting dry patch through it.  That way the bore will dry instantly and the water really won't take out the oil on the surface.  A big mistake is to plug one end of the bore as that traps the water and it can't steam dry.  I've never found any need to speed the drying on a barrel, it has so much mass that it holds the heat to dry in a few seconds if you hang it vertically.  Small parts get a good shaking and are blown on a bit to get water off.

Scrub the snot out of your bore with some 0000 oiled steel wool wrapped around your jag and then with a tight fitting patch and JB bore cleaner.  It will probably come out quite acceptable.

Tom

The 0000 wool as tight a fit as you can force in the muzzle about 50+ trips thru her should smooth her out, can't hurt.

[Dphariss]

Thanks folks for all of the tips. I'll certainly know what NOT to do next time. I will pat myself on the back at least for the fact that the rust blued steel came out near perfect at least on the outside . Like Bill Crystal may have said...." It is better to look good than to shoot good."    NOT!!!!!

I've had the bore well coated with oil for a few days. I'll have another go at it tomorrow ( day off ). I did try 0000 steel wool as snyder suggested however it didn't seem to be aggressive enough. I'm considering using a red " Scotch Brite " pad on a cleaning rod to try and polish the bore back smooth. Anyone thing this is a bad idea? Will I do more harm than good???

Scotch Brite will work. I would use the finer stuff from the Auto Parts/Auto Paint Shop. Its grey or white can't remember which is finest.
If this fails you can cast a lap in it if you have a heavy rod with a free running handle (actual bearings) and lap it with 280 or 320 clover compound for a couple of hours (or all day) then an hour with 600.  Just don't push the lap out the muzzle every time. Its even possible to lap in a choke if you are ambitious.
There is more to it that this but its not high tech. Just a lot of work.
Dan

[Dphariss]

Also remember that scotch brite will wear the lands faster than the grooves. Lapping with a cast lap will clean both.
Dan