Daisy Patchbox

[Dennis Glazener]

I recently was talking with an older gentleman that has been a avid collector of PA rifles. He told me an interesting story about his pursuit of what the actual flower used on the "Daisy" patchbox really was. . He said he had always wondered about the "Daisy" name since he did not believe the flower on the patchbox ever looked like a "Daisy" but something else. I am curious if any of you know of any other thoughts on this subject.
Dennis

[Buck]

Dennis,
Myosotis, quite popular in Germany. There is folklore in regards to the "forget me not" or myosotis. As God was naming the flowers he passed over Myosotis and the flower replied "forget me not"or something to that effect. It has 5 petals. The 4 petal finials are possibly edelweiss, as far as the 7 to 8 petals, might be a daisy (they have more than 7 petals).
Just a thought.
Buck

[BJH]

Kinda looks to my eye as a common butter cup flower. You see then alot here in Pa. come spring. BJH

[Dennis Glazener]

Dennis,
Myosotis, quite popular in Germany. There is folklore in regards to the "forget me not" or myosotis. As God was naming the flowers he passed over Myosotis and the flower replied "forget me not"or something to that effect. It has 5 petals. The 4 petal finials are possibly edelweiss, as far as the 7 to 8 petals, might be a daisy (they have more than 7 petals).
Just a thought.
Buck

Buck,
Certainly looks more like what the "Daisy" patchbox than our Daisy flower does ( http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ywPixwnOTtU/UN2HI2kJl0I/AAAAAAAAEFg/w3TIxS_94Gk/s400/Forget-me-not.jpg ). Actually it looks a lot like the flower he picked. The gentleman's thought was the "Marsh Mallow" flower http://pics.davesgarden.com/pics/2003/08/20/DaylilySLP/aaa7f5.jpg was his choice. Since it grew in central Europe he thought it probably was a carryover from the old country.
Dennis

[BJH]

Boy Dennis, that flower in a black and white picture is a dead ringer for the buttercup flower here in Pa. Of course the butter cup is yellow. BJH

[Majorjoel]

Buck, that is a very cool story and one I have never heard.  What I have heard is the flower is suppose to represent the edelweiss which is the national flower of Austria and Switzerland. This is all speculation of coarse and we may never really know unless someone finds a written document from back in the day where a gunsmith gives us his thoughts about his posey of choice. Here is an artists rendition of the edelweiss flower. I do not think we have a close match here.   

[PPatch]

I can't tell you what that flower depicted on rifles is Dennis but I know from living in Germany and travel in Switzerland that the edelweiss is a enduring symbol in those cultures. For instance the German mountain troops insignia is the edelweiss flower, you see its image carved as horn buttons on lederhosen, gasthus lodging symbols, dress patterns and the like, it is everywhere.

I'm wondering why the dogwood bloom never caught on with gunsmiths here in the US, seems a natural transition. I was sketching it and thinking of incorporating it into my rifle decoration but eventually switched to something more conventional.

dp

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

I carved a dogwood blossom on a rifle but got talked out of it  and took it off. I may do one again some day.. on a Mtn Gun

[Hurricane ( of Virginia)]

"He told me an interesting story about his pursuit of what the actual flower used on the "Daisy" patchbox really was. " As the person is anonymous to us, what is the "interesting story?"
Hurricane

[Buck]

Dennis,
There are several legends behind the forget me not, but it has apparently been popular in Germany and England for hundreds of years, apparently it was the sign of Henry IV of England. The other "marsh mallow" is a good match also. Let the speculation continue. I looked up Myosotis on line and apparently this flower is also indigenous to the States especially where early rifle building was occuring.
Buck

Joel,
I would agree that the 4 petal flowers with the smaller petals in between are edelweis. 2 of the JP Beck rifles here in the Library have that finial, and I have seen a Beyer rifle with the same. Kline also had the edelweiss on his patch box lid covering the rivet. I agree, as you have said speculation.
Buck

[Dennis Glazener]

"He told me an interesting story about his pursuit of what the actual flower used on the "Daisy" patchbox really was. " As the person is anonymous to us, what is the "interesting story?"

Not much of a "story" just how he had always thought the "Daisy" patchbox was not named for the proper flower. He, being a Pharmaceutical student at the time, ran across an article on how the Marsh Mallow flower/plant was used for medicinal purposes (http://botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/m/mallow07.html#mar ) and realized that it was a dead ringer for a couple of "Daisy" patchbox finials that he was familiar with. When he discovered that it grew in Central Europe he figured that flower was what was being depicted on the patchboxes and that when some of these gun makers immigrated to the US they continued with the same design. Nothing but speculation but it worked for him!
Dennis

[eastwind]

To the early Pennsylvania Germans the American daisy symbolized purity and simplicity and it appears on at least a dozen Lancaster rifles in the Landis Vally Museum Long Rifle Exhibit, (and numerous other rifles during the so-called "Golden Age"). Incidentally, it is  occasionally seen in the stock carving.
It can be found as a symbol in early Pennsylvania German bibles, which may be why so many gunsmiths adopted the motif.
Patrick Hornberger
 

[Buck]

Patrick,
Good to hear from you. We are all used to calling it a "Daisy patchbox" but for obvious reasons it appears to be something else, do you have or have you seen any documentation in your studies that can confirm the Daisy theory?
Buck