Hickory Bucks progress

[rich pierce]

I'm working on a rifle based largely on this smooth rifle stocked in hickory.  Call it a Lehigh; I call it a Bucks County rifle because the guard is the same as a Verner.  The original is a smoothbore about .60 caliber.  I wanted a squirrel rifle so went with a .36.





I started with a crooked piece of hickory, part heartwood, part sapwood, some mineral streak, only 1.75" wide.  There wasn't a single true plane on the plank and it wasn't very deep.  Luckily the original has no cheekpiece.  I was able to put in 1/4" of castoff.

Barrel: Rayl B weight, .36.  Lock: Chambers late Ketland. Furniture: Reeves Goehring Verner.

I've got the barrel in, ramrod groove and hole, lock and trigger and guard and buttplate in.  Buttstock mostly shaped.

I had trouble with the lock placement and the tail is lower than I'd like.  On the original, the top of the stock at the breech is kind of flat- the lock is mounted higher and so the edge of the lock molding is sort of high.  I thought I could "fix that".  Mistake #1.  Now it's hard to achieve the look of the original, that of a horizontally thin wrist.  Live and learn.  My first build in over 2 years, and thankfully it's for myself.  Still, I want it to be all it can be, so any help is welcome, though the stage is a little late.  These are snapshots- my main areas of concern are the top of the wrist, that it flows, and the nose of the comb, which I need to fix.  I have the web as thin as I can get it near the breech and there's almost no wood underneath the 5/16" ramrod hole- the guard front extension inlet exposed the hole. So I think it will be thin as I can get it vertically with the lock where it is.  Fore-arm then lock panels are next.

[Robby]

Rich, I would plane down the lock panel and re-inlet the lock. I have done it and it isn't a big deal, and hickory is very forgiving as to hiding the glue line. That is a cool gun!!!
Looking again, I would work on the lock plate profile as well.
Robby

[JCKelly]

Pretty much looks like a real rifle to me, as-is

[Lucky R A]

Hi Rich,
      I think you have a really good start on your gun.  I built one gun out of hickory and found it a bit more difficult than maple to work.  You do seem to have the tail of the lock a bit low, but this can be fixed.   If you draw a straight line from the point where your wrist intersects the comb to the point where the tang meets the barrel you will notice a slight "humpback" condition.  If you drop the tail of your tang down to this line and then remove all the wood and metal above the line your wrist will be much improved, and your lock will appear higher in the wrist.
Ron

[Acer Saccharum]

Rich, I found myself in the same predicament. On a Lehigh, using same lock, I ended up with little meat, (wood, actually) under the tail of the lock. Once you round the forestock, much of your distress will fade away.



I tried to get some of the banana out of the lock, but you're very limited as to how much you can take off.

In any event, you're going to end up with a very nice gun. Oh

[Acer Saccharum]

I think Ron's suggestion is right on the money. Bend the tang down, or file a bunch off, to change the top line. Very little wood makes a big difference, visually.

[DaveP (UK)]

Tyro gun maker maybe, but I've done a fair amount of carving and 3d modelling...
From your pics. it looks as if there might be a slight flat underneath the wrist, between the rear tip of the trigger guard and the trigger itself.
Its hard to be sure because the stock forward of the lock plate hasnt yet been profiled and the edge of the moulding around the lock plate hasnt been defined. There is a visible 'edge' below the lock which is obviously unfinished but makes it hard to assess the fairness of the overall curve.
If it were me | think I'd try to establish the moulding around the lock plate before doing much else, just to see how those new facets affect the overall appearance.
Also, is it too late to bend the tang a little more?

Hope you dont mind a new guy chipping in! Truth is, I'm strongly attracted to your source gun as well.  

Slow typist as well...

[rich pierce]

All very good advice.  For sure I will bend that tang some more and look more closely at the underside.  I may practice a little gluing on another piece to get confidence I could re-do it- but it's already bolted in.  All fixable....
thanks guys

[Mark Elliott]

I agree with Ron and Tom.   I think the lock panels and wrist look too thick.   I think lowering (bend or file) the end of the tang just 1/32" with all the wrist height that will allow you to take off will make a lot of difference.    I think that needs to be done in any case.   Try it before you decide to re-inlet the lock.    Removing a tiny amount of wood in the right place can make a world of difference.   I keep shaping up the stock with scrapers until I am sure I have taken off too much.   Then I wait a day and take off some more.   That is when things generally fall into place.

Mark

[J. Talbert]

Rich,
You have encountered a problem I have been pondering but have not yet tackled.  You centered the front lock bolt in the front extension of the lock, on a thin barreled gun.  This tends to tip the lock up at the front.  I think most of today's locks were fashioned off of original locks which were mostly mounted on guns with larger breeches.
With thin barrels I always seem to have to locate the screw toward the upper limit of the front lock extension, in order to get the lock position that I want.
I have a very thin barreled gun planned that I'm still trying to decide how to address this issue.

I guess repositioning the lock would be my approach on your gun, but that leaves the problem of positioning front lock bolt.
What do others think?

Jeff

[Cory Joe Stewart]

That is looking good.  I understand what folks are saying about the lock.  I did the same thing, with that same style lock on the mountain rifle I am working on.

That is a nice unique idea for a rifle.  Keep us posted.

Coryjoe

[rich pierce]

@ J. Talbert,
As it is, the front lock bolt is coming into the barrel channel and I notched the barrel.  I need more experience figuring these things out- and I guess I'm getting some!

[pathfinder]

It also appears that the lock is mounted a bit higher all over than what your is Rich. The lock bolt seem's to be @ 1/32 higher than the center line of the barrel.

That's what I do to get a really thin looking wrist.

[PPatch]

Rich;

Once you get your probelm solved, and considering how good looking that original rifle is, you are going to have a handsome squirrel rifle! Nice choice.

dave

[Tom Currie]

Rich, While taking the tang down some and thinning the top of the wrist will help, IMHO if you trying a capture the look of the rifle you are showing I would pivot the lock upward some keeping the front bolt in place. Obviously you will need to plug and redrill the rear bolt but if you think like me you will be happier in the long run. The only wood to be glued in would be below the lockplate to the rear point .
You've got a lot of work in already and a lot more time to put in so you might as well be happy with the end result. Orient your grain with a thin patch and maybe tint some glue.

Taking time off building definetly doesn't help. I also hadn't built in over a year and cut my wrist too thin at the comb/wrist junction and after a month of staring at it , glued a piece of wood in very carefully to correct it. I'll hide it the best I can but at least I am back on track and will be happy with the architecture.

I could have left a funny looking pinched wrist , it would have looked like a odd southern rifle that even George Shumway couldn't figure out.   No offense to Tim Boone and the southern rifle boys here.  

[pathfinder]

Tom's right,you wont be happy unless the lock is repositioned. The patch will be less bothersome than not moving the lock.

[TMerkley]

This is the first I have heard of hickory being used for a stock.  It is beautiful! Was hickory used very commonly or more or less as a last resort back in the day?  I would imagine it would be durable but heavy. 

[rich pierce]

Tom's right,you wont be happy unless the lock is repositioned. The patch will be less bothersome than not moving the lock.

These are good pieces of advice.  They would fix the lock position.  But moving the whole lock upward might not be practical at this stage.  The trigger plate is in and the tang bolt is in.  The lock bolts are in.  Moving things around will necessitate a new trigger plate and maybe the tang hole would have to be welded.

The stock is shaped beside the tang (the upper and lower limits of the lock molding are established).  If the whole lock is moved upward, there's no wood for a lock molding atop the lock.  I'd have to replace the entire upper half of the breech stock.  Restocking would be about as easy as those maneuvers, and may happen down the road.

Not disagreeing with the advice at all and Tom Currie's seems the most practical if I can get 1/8 to 3/16" lift at the tail.  Note to self- don't take a couple years off between builds.

[Tom Currie]

Rich, I didn'y really think about the upper  lock molding. Can't really tell from the pics how defined they already are.  Good luck and keep us posted.

[rich pierce]

I can maybe cheat by taking a little off the top line of the lock, Tom.    That would not help center the mass of the lock, though.

[Mark Elliott]

The great thing about being a SOUTHERN rifle builder is that you can build whatever the heck you want and no one can tell you, you are wrong.    Southern builders have always marched to a different drummer, incorporating everything that came before, regardless of time, place, or good taste.

[Curtis]

Rich, cool gun there.  I would have to be another one to agree with what Ron said.  I also think you could cheat the tail of the lock up a bit with some judicial filing on the bottom back of the plate.  This would requires some minor wood patching but would not affect any of your bolt placements.

Can't wait to see what you come up with!

Curtis

[little joe]

I would build it as is. Looking at hundreds of photos and handling many old rifles you will see what in our eyes are mistakes. RCA no. one-two will show several rifles with mistakes, or were they. Possibly the maker planned it that way. We do not know. Lil Joe

[Dphariss]

I have always liked this rifle's lines its a classic.
But I suspect that it was not shot much as a 60 caliber with shot or ball given the comb line.

Dan

[Acer Saccharum]

I am not one to glue in new wood and re-position a lock. Fix that on the next gun. These things are not sacred, they are tools, and what Rich is building will work fine.

With some judicious tweaking, it will be a fine gun.

Not to keep saying the same thing over again, repeatedly, but when I built my Lehigh, I ran into the same problem with the tail of the lock too low It dawned on me that when you make a true copy of something, you MUST use a lock of similar geometry, or it throws off the proportions.

It goes back to the old idea that the hardware dictates the shape and style of the gun.