Author Topic: Contemporary Hawken Rifles?? (Read 22876 times)

nosrettap1958 · « **on:** March 12, 2013, 03:55:04 PM »

I need some information on some of the contemporary Hawken rifles that were being built, the Green River, the Ozark Mountain and the Sharon. What are their histories and how would you guys rate them?
Me and a buddy from the Navy always argued over what was the best of these three. What do you all say?

alyce-james · « **Reply #1 on:** March 12, 2013, 05:00:36 PM »

Good morning Sir; SHARON by far. AJ

nosrettap1958 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 12, 2013, 05:41:25 PM »

Thank you for your kind response Sir!!!!! And I agree wholeheartedly about the Sharon built Hawken!!!
My favorite anyway. But AJ, as opposed to the others, didn't Sharon make their own barrels?

sz · « **Reply #3 on:** March 12, 2013, 05:43:49 PM »

Green River and Sharron both made their own barrels.
And both were very good.

Herb · « **Reply #4 on:** March 12, 2013, 07:09:31 PM »

Crawdad- I just E-mailed you a copy of the Green River Gazette, which issue is a history of the Jim Bridger Commemorative Hawken that GRRW built.

Herb · « **Reply #5 on:** March 12, 2013, 07:48:29 PM »

The E-mail address you have in your profile does not work.

nosrettap1958 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 12, 2013, 07:53:53 PM »

Herb,
That's it, gipatterso, not patterson

I read an article in an old 'American Rifleman' that reviewed the Green River Hawken and they went head over heels on how good a rifle it was. Strangely they never reviewed the Ozark Mountain or the Sharon Hawken, if I remember correctly.

rsells · « **Reply #7 on:** March 12, 2013, 09:44:37 PM »

Crawdad,
I have owned some of the rifles you talked about, and I tend to like characteristics of each, but there are differences between them when you compare them to the characteristics of the original classic 1/2 stock rifle. Take a look at the photographs in the Cody Museum of the Hawkens and plains rifles (they show top, bottom, left side, and right side profiles of the original rifles) verses the contemporary factory rifles that were made in the 70 and 80's. They are slight differences in entry thembles, nose caps, butt plates, wedge plates, sights, etc verses the originals. I have shot (and in some instances owned) some of the brands that were available back in the day and had good results with each of them. I am a bit biased toward two brands of barresl used, because they were easier to work up a load than the others. However, that could have been an issue with me being new to the sport and not having my head on straight at that time. I love all of the reproductions you discussed, and wish I had one of each to keep in house because I am a Hawken lover from the very first day. These folks were making an effort to offer the customer a rifle that was close to what the original Hawken looked like verses what other companies were doing when they put a Hawken name on a rifle that was not like the orignal Hawken rifle. All said and done, I like the GRRW Hawken best out of the three you listed.
Roger Sells

rsells · « **Reply #8 on:** March 12, 2013, 10:05:21 PM »

Crawdad,
You can get a bunch of info on the GRRW Hawken by looking at the two locations listed below that a Hawken lover on this forum gave me a while back:

Gunboards.com Search for thread: GRRW S J Hawken rifle
Help with value

Muzzleloader Home Page -Main forum list
-The campfire
-Campfire discussion forums
-Firearms
-How to identify Green River Hawkens

Also, The Hawken Shop (in Washington state) has a group of photographs
from the original Art Russel Hawken Shop (in St. Louis) that are good examples
as well.

The reference books that are available today has good info on the original rifles as well.

Roger Sells

nosrettap1958 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 12, 2013, 10:35:05 PM »

Thanks Roger!!!
I know that on the Campfire forum Mike Nesbitt was a big fan of the Ozark rifle. We had a discussion on that Forum a few years back about these contemporary Hawken rifles when I noticed a fellow had a Sharon Hawken up for sale on the Auction Arms web-site. A real beauty. Reserve hit after the first few bids and then it took off from there.

Don Stith · « **Reply #10 on:** March 13, 2013, 12:04:00 AM »

I agree with Roger. The GRRW was by far the best of the three you list. Some of their kits used some weird acessories, but the finished rifles that came out of the shop under Doc White were well made and great shooters. The Sharon barrels were hit and miss. Some were good and some were terrible. In general their cut rifled barrels were good. The button rifled ones not so good. The rectangular block Sharon stuck in the stock for an entry pipe was a big turnoff. It made inletting easy but was ugly. I don't remember whose barrels Ozark Mtn used. Perhaps someone can refresh my memory

Ray Nelson · « **Reply #11 on:** March 13, 2013, 03:17:20 AM »

Ozark used Green Mountain barrels.

GRRW Hawkens were what what most relished in my neck of the woods but I do believe the Sharons were more affordable at the time to most folks.

Ray

nosrettap1958 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 13, 2013, 04:45:11 PM »

Herb,
Thank you that is really appreciated, great info!!!

If I remember correctly, Mike N seemed to liked the Ozark Mountain, I've never seen one, over the others. Any other great repros of the Hawken rifle that are gone now that you guys can remember?

sloe bear · « **Reply #13 on:** March 13, 2013, 05:39:18 PM »

a little note about the Sharon Hawkins, I have 2 of those one with a maple stock and the other in walnut, both 54cal. they both shoot great and have taken many a mule deer. The walnut mounted one has different sights than the original I used a adjustable Long sight. they were both built in the 1970's from the Sharon kit. I have another question How about the Browing Mt Rifle? what the consensus on it? I also have 2 of the the first I purchased before they were in production #PP 13 in 50cal steel mounted, the outher is 54cal Brass mounted, these are a real fine shooting rifle. i have won many a match with mine (the 54) the other one my wife claims they are factory made but they handle well and shoot the same.I know there are some out there that look down on them but for my book they are very good weapons. I my opinion they should have never stopped production. just my thoughts and personnel opinion.

Longknife · « **Reply #14 on:** March 13, 2013, 06:06:49 PM »

I remember visiting the Ozark shop in Branson many years ago and fondeling their guns....I had a friend who ordered a rifle from them and it was a real nice piece, shot real well....We eventualy went our seperate ways, he got married and then the kids came along so he stopped shootiong BP. I think he still has it, he still lives in the area, maybe I'll give him a call....Ed

Hefner · « **Reply #15 on:** March 14, 2013, 01:06:54 AM »

My first two rifles were Hawken style stocked with black walnut and plain maple blanks using Sharon barrels, triggers and furniture. Doug Scott from the St. Louis Hawken Shop (1980's) reshaped my walnut stocked rifle, while he was living in Arizona. I won many matches with those two rifles over the years. And you couldn't meet a nicer guy than Doug Scott. He shared his skills with many people in our club while he was in Arizona.
Thanks Doug!

oldarcher · « **Reply #16 on:** March 15, 2013, 02:47:36 AM »

I have owned one GRRW Hawken, built one from a kit, and have owned at least 5 of the GRRW Lemans. In addition I have owned one Sharon from a kit, and I currently have two Sharon barrels waiting for just the right stock. I have never considered an Ozark Hawken so I really do not have an opinion about their rifles but if they use Green Mtn barrels they are probably OK just not in the same league with the GRRW and Sharon.
My preference would be GRRW, although Sharon made a very nice barrel and I really like them, they are just not as desireable to me as GRRW. The main reason is that I consider Bill Large to be the best barrel maker in modern history ( I shoot a Bill Large barreled Hawken ) and he was very involved in helping GRRW get set up as a barrel company and trained the gunsmith who was responsible for GRRW's rifling procedures. With Bill's guidance, GRRW has to be the best old barrel maker ever.
Just my 2 cents.

nosrettap1958 · « **Reply #17 on:** March 15, 2013, 03:39:51 PM »

I didn’t know that Bill Large was involved with GRRW.

Bob Roller · « **Reply #18 on:** March 15, 2013, 04:25:28 PM »

Bill Large was very much involved with GRRW and I met the man he trained to use the rifling machine he sold them.
GRRW came to a bad end in 1980 and some of their business dealings were not on the up and up.

Bob Roller

nosrettap1958 · « **Reply #19 on:** March 15, 2013, 05:00:16 PM »

What do you mean Bob?

oldarcher · « **Reply #20 on:** March 15, 2013, 05:37:38 PM »

This is an excerpt from Doc White's web site,
'Blue Jacket' Sanders showed up just in time to improve product quality, Tanyu Howard was trained by Bill Large to make GRRW barrels and was the genius and moving force behind Green River Black Powder. We called the belt driven planer shown at right 'Grandpa'. It came with the deep hole drills and P&W rifling machines that GRRW bought from Bill Large. It was soon replaced by a 12 position semi-automated machine for faster and higher quality production.
I am sure that Bob has more direct knowledge than I concerning his friend Bill and his relations with GRRW, but I have had along history "shooting" GRRW products from the late 60's and have not experienced any issues with their business practices. When a company fails there are a lot of hurt feelings, and "bad situations" that arise, it can't be helped, so I am not surprised by Bob's comments. I heard or read that the machinery from GRRW went to Oregon Barrel Co, then I also read/heard that the machines went to Green River in Australia??? I really do not know for sure?

nosrettap1958 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 15, 2013, 05:56:48 PM »

I didn't know that GRRW was building rifles that long. Who built their rifles longer, GRRW or Sharon? I guess Ozark Mountain has dropped out of the conversation.

oldarcher · « **Reply #22 on:** March 15, 2013, 07:40:32 PM »

This is from the GRRW section on Doc's website:
http://whitemuzzleloading.com/
GREEN RIVER RIFLE WORKS

GRRW was incorporated in March of 1972. It started operations in DOC's garage, later moved to a 8000 sq. foot warehouse in town. I had been thinking about rifles for a production company for a long time, finally centering on a composite of Henry Leman's later cross plains rifles. I made the first one, call it the prototype, in 1970.

I am not sure exactly when Hall Sharon started building rifles, but I think that it was later than this.

Bob Roller · « **Reply #23 on:** March 15, 2013, 09:01:19 PM »

I THINK Heelerau posted that GRRW came to Australia and may still be operational there
in one form or another. They were going under in 1980 and knew !@*%&@ well they couldn't fill orders but still
took money and said they could. Ask Helmut Mohr in Mayen/Hausen Germany about that one.They had already
filed for bankruptcy protection so everything was at a dead stop with little or no legal recourse available for recovery
of lost funds.

Bob Roller

Hefner · « **Reply #24 on:** March 16, 2013, 03:54:55 AM »

I put a deposit down on a GRRW Hawken at that time and lost it due to the bankruptcy. I was very upset at the time, because it was a lot of money and there was nothing I could do about it.

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Author Topic: Contemporary Hawken Rifles?? (Read 22876 times)

nosrettap1958

nosrettap1958

nosrettap1958

nosrettap1958

nosrettap1958

sloe bear

oldarcher

nosrettap1958

nosrettap1958

oldarcher

nosrettap1958

oldarcher