Fixing silver inlay

[McLeanWelsh]

Howdy everyone, I am fixing up an old english fowler and it has some really elaborate silver or pewter inlays. Im leaning towards pewter as there is a good patina on the gun and the inlays are still quite gray.

There is a a dog standing on a starburst pattern that is all missing. Also just a dog that is half missing.

Its fairly deep and im wondering if you could melt pewter into it and then shape it once it hardens. It would be @!*% near impossible to cut something out this shape.

Any thoughts or experience with this ? The gun is almost done after lots of work and help from a friend. Will be cosmetics after the new nipple is made.

Cheers, McLean

[Hungry Horse]

 I suspect your inlays are German silver, or coin silver, instead of pewter. The formula for German/nickel silver, and coin silver, surly have changed over the years, making some old inlays more likely to show age than others. Inlays can be easily be reproduced by removing what is left of he old, making a rubbing of the existing inlet, gluing it to the nickel silver, and cutting it out with a jewelers saw. Trying to pour an inlay is most likely a formula for disaster.


                    Hungry Horse

[McLeanWelsh]

Okay that makes a little more sense i suppose, i can give it a try atleast. Do you know anywhere you can get some german silver for that ?

Cheers, McLean

[Dphariss]

All silver tarnishes.  Coin, pure, sterling.
Nickel (German) "silver" does is more resistant and if it does tends to get green.
 
Dan

[Captchee]

 Pouring an inlay of  pewter isn’t an issue . , in fact you can even pour pewter to  other metals like brass  so as to achieve a brass inlaid in pewter effect . All that is done right on the stock
 However as the others said ,  its probably German silver   which you can not cast in the stock . It must be cut out and then inlaid

[smart dog]

Hi McLean,
Could you post some pictures of this gun?  Is it an English sporting gun from the 18th or 19th centuries?  Was it originally flint?  Are the inlays flat and 2-dimensional or shaped in relief.  If it is an 18th or early 19th century gun of quality, the inlays are almost certainly not German silver or pewter and it would be a horrible mistake to replace them with those metals.  They would be sterling silver or possibly (on a high-end gun) Britannia-grade silver. The original may have been cast and then chiseled such as the sideplate shown below.

dave 

[McLeanWelsh]

Its 19th century and its marked COOK WARMINSTER with gold leaf in the lettering that is mostly gone and a very elaborate barrel forward of the breechplug.

Its at a friends house right now ill try to get some pictures today for you guys.

[smart dog]

Hi McClean,
That may be Thomas Cook, active 1821-1830, in Warminster, Wiltshire, England.  If made by T. Cook during that period , it might have been flintlock originally and converted to percussion or a caplock from the outset.

dave

[snowdragon]

You can't pour pewter into intricate designs, it's too thick. About the most you can get away with is wide line, a circle, or an oval, and it still takes some coaxing. Bill

[Mark Elliott]

I would really be surprised to find pewter or German silver on an old English fowler.   I would expect it to be silver, coin or sterling.   Real silver ig bright gray and will have a black cast to it as it ages.  German silver is a duller gray takes on a yellow cast with age.    I recently saw a 19th century rifle that I initially thought was brass mounted with brass inlays.   However, on closer examination,  I came to the conclusion it was nearly all German silver.   Real silver does not have a yellow cast to it although medium and soft silver solder does.   Silver is also considerably harder than pewter(real pewter with lead).  Real pewter gets dark gray as it tarnishes.

[McLeanWelsh]

The gun is definately a purpose built percussion and its taking alot of work to bring her back. But its almost there. Thanks for everyones help so far!

Here are some overall pics and one of the name on the barrel. Ill have the ones with the inlay soon and post them right away.





Cheers, McLean

[Captchee]

You can't pour pewter into intricate designs, it's too thick. About the most you can get away with is wide line, a circle, or an oval, and it still takes some coaxing. Bill

sorry disagree
 i have even caste  items like Pineapple  entry finals  from pewter , directly to the stock .  I will have to look to find a photo of one of those . but its even finer and smaller detail then this .

[Captchee]

 I would doubt that  the silver work is sterling . Probably more  to  cupronickel or sometimes called hot silver ..
 Which is a little different then  what we know today as German silver. But unlike sterling , it basically has no silver in it 

 When it comes to castings.  Of like side plates and such . Especially on high end pieces .
 Im not sure I would agree that these would have  been made predominantly from casting .
 Most like they were if  the same plates were to be used over and over again .
 But I would think on one off piece , carving and sculpting was probably more to the  correct application . Simply put , no real benefit to casting unless there is a need for multiples of the very same piece .

[McLeanWelsh]

Ok so I got some pics now! Lets get down to brass tacks here!





Also here are some pics of the wood just for fun haha




I really appreciatte everyones help so far! Hopefully we can figure it out.

Cheers, McLean

[McLeanWelsh]

I took a small dental pick and scraped the very edge of the broken on and it comes out in small chips, like its very brittle.


Any thoughts ? This is the last thing on the gun that needs to be repaired.

Although there is some file marks on the snail from the new drilling and tapping, what would be the best way to try and match the old patina ?

I thought brass black might work as its a rather dull black patina on the gun, however I don't know how this reacts to steel. Browning I don't think would work and bluing might as long as I managed to get a deep dark dull finish.

[Rolf]

The only way I can think of is making is pressing som kind clay imprint of the inlet and casting it is silver. Of course you'll have the problem of shrinkage on the casting, but l think the result would be aceptable..

Best regards
Rolf

[Robby]

Maybe it is poured. Some kind of pewter alloy? is the inlay mortice slightly undercut? I does look like some slight charring around parts of the mortice. I think pewter could be poured if a dike is made around the site, using plumbers putty maybe. Carefully file and sand to finish. When you get down close you might have to peen a little if all the inlay is not filled. Just a thought.
Robby

[Blacksmoke]

McLean:  There is a new product on the market in terms of "solder" called "Tix solder" - it melts at 275 degrees and thus it will not burn stock wood.  It also stays bright silver and will not tarnish. This might be a solution for pouring in your missing inlay.   It is available from TOW or Brownells.        Hugh Toenjes