Wonder What It's Worth

[Majorjoel]

An interesting auction item being an early copy of "The Kentucky Rifle" by Dillin. I see in a later added disclaimer the book may be a second edition. Anyone here have a first edition of this early book? http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=336000511

[Don Stith]

I have one of the first editions addressed to a ? ? Rockwood and signed by Dillon. Looks a lot like the one in the auction but is a grey cover.
 I also have four first edition Kindigs including one of the Deluxe leather bound in a sleeve. I have no clue what they are worth.

[eddillon]

I also have a 1st edition.  No clue to value.  here is a link to a book auction site that had an auction range of $75-$200 in a 2011 auction.  It is lot 2007





 
National Book Auctions


www.nationalbookauctions.com/072411NBAsite.doc

[Majorjoel]

Hi Don, I have always wanted to read a copy of the early edition with the added chapter on Kentucky pistols. Mr. Shumway did a lot of editing and upgrading some of the knowledge base which is nice, but does change what Dillin wrote. I did say just read this book and not have to buy it! I have spent a lot of $$ on several out of print books like the first Patchbox book. This one was worth the money. I do have the Dillin book. It is one of the later editions. What I find most interesting about The Kentucky Rifle are the names of the collectors that owned various pieces. Some of these rifles are around in different collections today. Don, are the pictures in your first editions any better (clearer) quality then the newer books?  

[Avlrc]

I sold a signed first edition a few months ago for 75.00. I still have a first edition but it is not signed. Seems high, but more power to em if they can get whatever their reserve must be. If I remember right the first edition is missing some guns that is pictured in later editions. If this is  correct then the later editions would be more desirable to me.

[Bill Paton]

Google "Abebooks" and you'll find reprints and originals starting about $27. Nice book to have.

[jdm]

I once owned a Stofil Long rifle  that was in Dillin's book.  The gun was unsignedand  The picture was flint. When I got to looking at the rifle it was a reconversion. Dillins book was published in 1922 or 23. They were reconverting them even back then.

[HIB]

Gentlemen,   The following may help:

Dillin's first edition was a copy right dated  1924 Published by the NRA and edited by Kendrick Scofield.  The foreword/dedication was done by the author.

Not certain as to the publish date of the second edition, however, the foreword was by Henry Stewart and written sometime prior to 1946

The third edition was published in 1946 by George Hyatt. The forward was written by Hyatt as well.

The fourth edition was published in 1959 by George Shumway.  Joe Kindig Jr. wrote the forward.

Not certain what edition is current but do know old printing technology declines  as the original plates deteriorate with each use. So inspect rather than expect.

Regards,  HIB

[Eric Kettenburg]

Yes, the pictures in the first edition are *slightly* more detailed than subsequent editions.  It's nothing earth-shattering, but some faint detail and clarity was lost by the time of the second edition printing.  I find Dillin's book fascinating, as there are many rifles pictured therein which as yet have not resurfaced for contemporary scrutiny/photography; a number of such "underground" pieces would be of much interest and very worthy of study, I believe.

A portion of the rifles in the book can be found via 1950s-early 1960s auction catalogs if one wants to take the time to hunt those, and some of the photography in the catalogs is of slightly larger size.

[Majorjoel]

I can see by the end result of this auction that the seller did not want to part with his copy! The bidder who gave his all, is better off in my opinion from what has been revealed here. I also own a rifle that is pictured in this book by Dillin. Knowing where it was in the 1920's adds more to my research quest than is typical. 

[Majorjoel]

Hey Eric! And what about all of those makers that no one has heard of since this book came out? "Robert Woods" ?? And dated rifles from the F&I war period and before! I do enjoy Capt. Dillins end notations after a rifles description...."very handsome piece"...."great beauty"..."fine work"...."poor work".

[Don Stith]

I have seen some rifles that were unsigned in Dillon, then showed up later with signature, dates and even townships inscribed. Maybe he just didn't see the signature???

[Eric Kettenburg]

This is one of the reasons those old books and auction catalogs, considered outdated by some, still retain much value yet.  They help to reveal "changes" that may have occurred over any given rifle's lifetime, sometime very recently in a rifle's lifetime...  

Yep, there are good numbers of rifles in there that constantly have me thinking, "and where the heck did THAT come from?" as well as makers or attributed makers who I think have yet to be identified.

I really like that old book.

[oakridge]

I have seen some rifles that were unsigned in Dillon, then showed up later with signature, dates and even townships inscribed. Maybe he just didn't see the signature???

And, some of them even have the Zip Code.

[Mark Tyler]

I see the auction hit $350 and did not meet the seller's reserve price. It is now re-listed. What color is the cover on the first edition? Can someone post photos of the first edition? And John G. W. Dillin's autograph?

[eddillon]

Here is a quick shot of my 1st edition.  Due to fading it is difficult to tell the original cover color.  Seems to be  gray-dark green.  My copy is unsigned.  Lettering is dull gilt.

[Mark Tyler]

Thanks for posting the photo. I have the following signed copy of the book and was thinking it was the first edition.

[Don Stith]

Mark
 My copy is identical to yours. I also thought it was the First Edition. Since this discussion came up, I have looked closer at mine. Between the copyright page and the one with the picture of Dillon and his birthplace: there is a forward by Henry Stewart. In his forward he states that this is a second edition.
 Interestingly, I also have a fourth edition. It includes the Bedford and KY pistols chapters. on the copyright page it lists the dates for first, third and fourth editions but does not identify the existance of a second edition. I wonder if the second edition was just a reprinting of the first edition with no changes other than the forward by Stewart.

[eddillon]

Mark, I think you are correct about the 2nd edtion.  No real change except cover design and forward.

[JCKelly]

My first edition has a red cover with gold lettering. Only date on it is 1924, several times. Got it along with a rifle, the one shown as rifle #3, Plates 93 & 94, from the St. John collection. A late flintlock, well at least it predates 1924. So far as I know, been in Michigan since the 1950's owned by a Bill Harris, would like to believe Harris bought it from St. John but don't know.

Yeah, I guess I gotta bite the bullet & try to figure out the New and Improved Photobucket. Bless them there IT guys anyway.

[Majorjoel]

My late great uncle's name was Bill Harris. He was also from Michigan. This is getting more interesting all the time!

[eddillon]

Sure would like to see that red cover.  I know that mine is a 1st edition.  I know by whom, when and where it was purchased in 1925.

[JCKelly]

Mirabile dictu!
URL=http://s451.photobucket.com/user/4JamesKelly/media/Dillin002-Copy.jpg.html][/URL]
I certainly can not say I know how to use or understand the New Improved Photobucket but I did manage to get this photo of Mr. Saint John's rifle on it.
Majorjoel - I bought this rifle from Robert Hubbard's collection May 2005, from his son, really. He told me his father had bought it from "the late Bill Harris in 1973. Harris bought it in the early 1950's"
Further, my notes say:
The 1930 US Census says Clarence St. John was born in 1881, his father was from Michigan, mother from Indiana. At age 27 St. J. married his wife Lola, who was born in Ohio. They had three (?) children Victor, born 1909, and Princess, born in 1912. She was married to Therald Oatman, born 1907. They lived in Berrien Springs Village, Oronoko Twp., Berrien County, Michigan.

Bill Harris, who may have owned this rifle next, bought it in the 1950’s according  to R. Hubbard, Jr. It is my guess that Harris got it from the estate of Clarence St. John.

Robert Hubbard, Senior, was from Fowlerville, and at the time of his death about 2003 lived in Troy, Michigan, on 4251 Washington Crescent.    .

So Majorjoel, do I have your Uncle's rifle?

[Buck]

Don,
I have a 4th edition also and noticed there wasn't a mention of the 2nd. I think you are correct (make sense) the 2nd printing is considered the 2nd edition.
Buck

[Majorjoel]

JC, My uncle Bill passed away around 2009 at the age of 98. So, it had to be another Harris that owned your fine rifle. The Harris name is not quite as prolific as the Hall name, it seems lately we have caught up with the Smith's! The Harris clan from my mothers side has been in the Traverse City area since 1885 coming from Devonshire England was my GGrandfather James Harris. Uncle Bill, his son did have an interest in antique arms. He retired from the US Army in 1962 and resettled back in this area with an English bride. My last memory of him in his final years when he came by for a visit. I showed him my gun collection and he talked of having owned a few old Kentucky's. During his visit, he fell asleep rocking in my GGrandmother's(his mother) rocking chair holding one of my English SxS's. Great memories! Mr. Kelly, I sure would like to see more of your St. John's rifle. Do you have any ideas as to the maker?