Bridle or no?

[Mike New]

Distinguished Panel, Common sense tells us that a lock with a pan bridle should be stronger and last longer that one without. Can anyone offer some data has to how many shots one can expect from a lock with out a bridle? It seems that a lot of the "early" locks are with out. I guess the real question would be " Could I wear out a lock with out a bridle in my life time?" I'm 51 and in good health!! Thanks in advance, Mike New 

[smylee grouch]

I have had locks without and shot countless rounds through that gun with no decernable wear or play .

[smallpatch]

redheart,
I believe we have a terminology issue here.  I believe Greenberry is talking about a bridled "frizzen", not a tumbler.

[mattdog]

" Could I wear out a lock with out a bridle in my life time?"

No.

[Kermit]

Bridle/no bridle. Flip a coin if you have no personal or aesthetic preference. I have both, and the decision was never rational. 

[Acer Saccharum]

In a well fitted precision fit, the bridle-less frizzen will work just fine. When the threads are sloppy, and the screw can wiggle in its hole, the hole can rapidly wear bigger, especially if the plate isn't casehardened.

However, most production locks today are pretty darned good. I've a huge increase in quality over the years.

As long as the initial fit-up is good, you should have no fears about a bridle-less frizzen.

[Gaeckle]

" Could I wear out a lock with out a bridle in my life time?"

No.

.........Oh yes you can!!!!! Gotta live to be about 250 years old.....and that's not in dog years!

[Roger Fisher]

Could I wear out a bride in my lifetime?   I doubt it but would like to try.....'pending some on the 'bride'..

[Dphariss]

" Could I wear out a lock with out a bridle in my life time?"

No.

Yes.
People shooting BPCR wear out lock parts. Takes several thousand rounds of shooting but its doable.
Since the pan bridle predates the Kentucky rifle I see little point in using a lock without one unless doing a bench copy of an original.

Dan

[Bob Roller]

Is this question about internal bridles that capture the tumbler and sear
or is is about a pan bridle? I have heard the internal bridle on locks set the development of breech loaders back at least 100 years because
once the mechanism was stablized there was no real need for breech loaders.

Bob Roller

[mattdog]

a lock with a pan bridle should be stronger and last longer that one without.

Emphasis mine.

The frizzen is flipping back and forth on the shank of a screw whether it is bridled or not bridled.  As far as simple wear is concerned I don't believe it makes any difference on a well built and concieved lock.  Now, if one were to drop their piece and it landed on the frizz. bending the screw that is a different problem.  In fact it might have been a common problem and that is why most (all?) locks were eventually made with a bridle. 

Something else to consider is the ease of making/forging a lock without a bridle vs. a bridled lock 250 years ago.

[James Wilson Everett]

Guys,

When I make a lock without a pan bridle I make the frizzen pivot screw from hardenable steel and harden and temper the same as a spring.  I feel better about using a stronger and harder screw here than just a wrought iron screw.  I have seen no difference in operation or in life of the lock when using a no bridle pan.  It is a good bit easier to make a pan without a bridle, for sure.

Jim

[Acer Saccharum]

Pan bridle is a definite improvement on the older bridle-less. Ill fitted pivot screws, soft lock plate and poor quality workmanship will certainly cause an early demise of the bridle-less lock.

But a well fitted and hardened bridle-less will give excellent service, and should be of no concern.

A poorly fitted bridled frizzen lock will certainly out-perform a poorly fitted bridle-less.

[hanshi]

Though I have no experience with unbridled frizzen locks, My next (hope) gun will feature an early lock with an unbridled frizzen.  I have read up on the subject and as far as I can tell there is no difference in longevity (the lock).  I suspect, barring abuse, you will go long before the lock does.

[shortbarrel]

We can talk all day about this, but the real thing is keeping the lock, slightly oiled and clean. Neglect takes its toll on locks. Frizzen or tumblerl no bridle locks or locks with them, cheap or precision,it still takes a toll. First thing on a LR to go is usually the lock.

[Mike New]

Thanks again!! This should help pick out a lock and a bride!! I can always count on good advice from ALR. Mike New

[bob in the woods]

The style of lock I use depends on the type/style and time frame of the rifle I want to build.
My Chambers Marshall rifle gets a lot of use and I don't expect any problems with the no bridle lock in my lifetime. Using a lock with a bridle on this rifle just wouldn't be proper, so if you go with a bridled lock, make sure you build your rifle accordingly.