Breech Plug Witness Marks Won't Line Up

[Silky]

Hi Guys,

This is my first time posting -- lots of inspiration here to start my first project.

So I have a barrel that has had the breech plug installed, with a witness mark cold-chiseled into the bottom as evidence.  However, I can't get the two marks to line-up.  I've read some old threads here in the forums and have tried the anti-seize, but it just won't turn that last 1/2mm.  Before I do some irreversible damage, I thought I'd ask for your help/advice.  Any ideas?

Thanks a lot!

- Tom

[Ken G]

Take it back out and clean the face of the breech plug, threads, and shoulder inside the barrel real good.  Most likely there was a sliver of metal filing or something in the threads that got pushed between face of the plug and the shoulder inside the barrel that's keeping it from going that last little bit.  
OR
It was originally installed with a bigger wrench and more umph!  

If all else fails you can sand/file the face of the breech plug where it is contacting the shoulder, allowing it to screw in a little more. If you go this route, get a perm. magic marker (large mark's a lot) and cover the face of the plug.  Screw it in and it will rub off where it makes contact shoulder.  That's the part you want to carefully remove.  Go slow and easy.  It doesn't look like much needs to be removed.

Ken

[Jerry V Lape]

How are you holding the barrel and what are you using for a wrench?   First, move forward of the threaded portion of the barrel with your vise or you will be making the threaded area tighter.  YOu are going to need a really firm grip on the barrel without distorting it with the vise.  I made a tool which holds the barrel well by drilling a hole larger than the barrel near the breach.  then I cut the block in half lengthwise, partially filled both halves with Bondo , wrapped plastic wrap around the barrel, clamped the two halves together (with some plastic wrap between) where I would use them on the barrel.  When the Bondo was fully cured I had a tool with a super grip on the octagonal barrel without having to crush it in the vise.  Found an old monkey wrench with smooth jaws, padded them with brass sheet.  General hand tools like a crescent wrench just didn't work for me and the jaws would have damaged the edges of the tang.  If needed I can also tap on the handle of the wrench to get the last little bit to the witness mark.  

[Ken G]

Jerry,
Can you post a picture of that?  Good advise
Cheers,
Ken

[bob in the woods]

Make sure that you clamp the barrel well back from the threaded portion, so you aren't crushing the area. That can make things far more difficult.

[docone]

Anti Seize takes up space on the threads. Might be an issue also.
Wipe it off and the residue should be enough.

[Don Getz]

Does the top part match up with the top flat?   I think you just have to put a little extra effort on the wrench, hey, it was into
the barrel before.......Don

[Jerry V Lape]

Ken G,

Here are two view of my last one which I made to stay one piece.  It just slips over the barrel stopping where it was made on the swamp near the breech.  I just cut out a groove with a handsaw and chisel of appropriate size in each block, filled them with Bondo , wrapped the barrel with plastic wrap and clamped them together around the barrel in the vise.  Have one for each barrel this way if the swamp is different.  Cost about 50 cents.  Didn't think this up myself, someone else on here related it a couple years ago. 

[Ken G]

Jerry,
Thanks for taking the pictures.   Neat idea to who ever came up with it. 
Cheers,
Ken

[Bill-52]

Tom,

I use a large old Stillson wrench.  The tapered jaws of which when lined with brass align very well with the taper of the breech plug.  Even with the barrel securely in the vice, I found that the last bit of tightening to get the witness mark lined up required hammer blows on the wrench.

Not being comfortable with pounding the wrench and breech plug, I use a 4-foot length of pipe I had in the shop to slip over the wrench handle.  A few gentle nudges and the witness mark is aligned.

Bill

[bgf]

Try to tighten it as is -- it is about where I like it to be VERY TIGHT.  They will loosen up every time you take them out, so better to start too snug than just right or loose.  Like Bill-52 said, put a pipe over the end of your wrench -- that works wonders.  4 ft. extension allows removing a bush hog blade after year of use, so a little breech plug should be no problem !

[Dennis Glazener]

I've read some old threads here in the forums and have tried the anti-seize, but it just won't turn that last 1/2mm.

Just get a big old hammer, make sure the vise and wrench are tight and frail it a time or two. I always end up doing that on Rice and GreenMountain barrels. It does take but one or two good whacks. Again make sure the wrench and vise jaws are tight before doing it. Also make sure the wrench is below the showing surface of the breech plug so you won't damage it.
Dennis

[Silky]

Thanks for all the help, gents.  The combo of thoroughly cleaning the breech and plug, oiling them up, strengthening the hold of the vise, and using a longer lever-arm action snugged the two marks right up.  You guys rock!

I was able to move forward and start inletting the tang, where I'm afraid an errant slip of the knife cut away too much from one side.  I'm thinking I can fix this with a plug of scrap glued in and sanded flush.  But before I go that route, any better ideas or tips? 

Sorry for being the high-maintenance new guy... I do very much appreciate your help!

[Dphariss]

Hi Guys,

This is my first time posting -- lots of inspiration here to start my first project.

So I have a barrel that has had the breech plug installed, with a witness mark cold-chiseled into the bottom as evidence.  However, I can't get the two marks to line-up.  I've read some old threads here in the forums and have tried the anti-seize, but it just won't turn that last 1/2mm.  Before I do some irreversible damage, I thought I'd ask for your help/advice.  Any ideas?

Thanks a lot!

- Tom

Remove it, put STP oil treatment on the plug threads and a dab in the hole. It will index but you need to use enough torque.  Anti-seize is not necessarily a good lube. STP is.
EP grease may work too, or a good motor oil. But I like STP for fitting/installing breeches.


Dan

[Jerry V Lape]

Gluing in a thin strip of wood works.  I cut thin strips on a table saw, then lay it on a counter and use a small scraper to thin it to almost finished thickness.  You will need to scrape the site to eliminate the gouge marks before gluing.  Back the strip with a block of wood or metal that gives full contact when clamped.  I like to use stainable wood glue for this and match the curl as much as possible. 

[Silky]

Thanks Jerry.  I'll give that a shot.

[Blackpowder Barbie]

Just a heads up to Rice Barrel Co. uses an18" wrench to install their plugs.  It typically takes that size wrench to put the plug back in to the witness marks.