Vent Liner removal

[chipshot]

Hey to all
I recently purchased a used TC Hawkens Flintlock and am going over it before taking it to the rangeto try it out. I tried to remove the vent liner but could only unscrew it about half way and it stuck. It fells like maybe it has powder crud or corrision on the end and I do not want to strip the slot to remove it. Any recommendations to get it ou is greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Jim

[SCLoyalist]

A really good penetrating oil (Kroil is what comes to mind),  submerge the breech end and let it sit for several days and see if the crud/corrosion has loosened its grip. 

Good luck with it.   SCL

[chipshot]

Thanks much . I will give it a try.
Jim

[Hungry Horse]

 My first question, is why in the world would you want to remove the vent liner If it isn't burned out (which can be determined without removing it). Leave it alone. Rarely is a vent liner usable after its been removed. And, often isn't even removable without using an easy out. The risk of thread damage from built up crud on the inside edge of the threads, can wreck the threads in the barrel. I can't tell you how many flinters have come my way with vent hole damage from somebody deciding they needed to remove the vent liner, when they really should have left it alone.

                  Hungry Horse

[Black Jack]

My first question, is why in the world would you want to remove the vent liner If it isn't burned out (which can be determined without removing it). Leave it alone. Rarely is a vent liner usable after its been removed. And, often isn't even removable without using an easy out. The risk of thread damage from built up crud on the inside edge of the threads, can wreck the threads in the barrel. I can't tell you how many flinters have come my way with vent hole damage from somebody deciding they needed to remove the vent liner, when they really should have left it alone.

                  Hungry Horse

My impression was that the stainless vent liners in modern production replica muzzleloaders are designed to be easily romoveable/replaceable. Some folks prefer to remove these as part of the cleaning process just as percussion shooters remove the nipple. I know there are varying opinions as to whether this is necessary or not, but I do personnally when I clean my guns........other's mileage may vary. Are you referring to the "white lightening" or other types often times used for custom muzzleloaders that are designed to more or less remain in place?  At any rate, I would second the motions that the OP soak the breech end of the barrel in a penetrating oil to loosen up whatever crud is jamming up the threads. Since your problem may be corrosion brought on by improper cleaning/lubricaton prior to storage by a previous owner, I would carefully inspect the threads in the vent liner hole and on the liner itself to determine if there is any damage.  If its OK, then I recomment using lubricant similar to the lube used on revoveable breech plugs or shotgun removeable choke tubes on the threads before you replace it.

[smallpatch]

continuous removal and re installation of a touch hole liner, WILL turn it into a missile eventually.  By it's very nature, a coned touch hole liner, like a White lightning, is self cleaning.  The venturi effect will keep that baby cleaned out.
I've yet to remove a touch hole liner to clean it.  It's just NOT necessary.  The only one I've removed, and been to replace it.  And even that doesn't happen very often.
When necessary, drill it out, and remove it with an easy out.

[Black Jack]

I realize that everyone has their own opinion on this subject, but the following is from Page 40 of the TC Hawken manual as part of the recommended cleaning procedure:       

        • Remove the nipple on the cap lock model (or the touchhole
        bushing on the flint lock) and clean it and the corresponding
        threads in the barrel. Dry the parts thoroughly and reassemble
        the bushing into the barrel.

When cleaning the rifle, this allows a sufficient volume of water to be pumped thru the barrel to clean the nooks and crannies, including the threads for the vent liner and allows cleaning the threads on the liner itself. All of this obviously does not apply to flintlocks manufactured with liners that are not designed to be removed frequently. 

[Hungry Horse]

 Touch hole liners are almost all made from stainless steel, or Inco bronze, both of these materials, while resistant to burnout, are very susceptible to thread galling. Threads in touch hole liners, drums, and breech plugs, should be as close to a full detention thread as possible.  Removing, and reinstalling, these items numerous times compromises the threads integrity.
 And, as for TC's recommendations, just remember they think coil springs are what is needed in a lock.

                    Hungry Horse

[Black Jack]

Just as an aside, I would mention that my TC rifles and pistol, couple of which are 30+ years old, have locks that are still pretty snappy (much more so than I am these days), coil springs or not. While some prefer a conventional mainspring, the coils are adequately fast and perhaps a little less prone to breakage. Lyman / Investarms has used them for many, many years with great success. Not to mention my Dale Storey / Pioneer Arms mule ear lock. I would just like to very respectfully point out that it does not really have much bearing on the vent liner question. My preference is to first, get the maximum flow of water/cleaning fluid pumping thru the vent hole when cleaning and also to ensure there is no corrosion-enabling residue on the liner threads.  Has worked well for thousands of TC (and other) owners since they started makin' em. IMHO.

[LH]

I make my own liners and remove them for cleaning.  You can tear up anything if you try,  but if done right,  the barrel will be worn out before the threads for the liner lets go.  I keep the threads clean by turning a .35 caliber bronze brush in them when I clean and then wrap the liner with Teflon tape.  Comes out with little more than finger pressure on the screwdriver.  If you leave one in for several days or longer,  use some oil or wiping juice to soften the fouling.

[RichG]

remove my vent liners to clean all the time and have never had a problem. Also use anti seize on the threads and never have a problem with galling the threads. Be careful about soaking the barrel in penetrating oil as I've had some remove the blue. never used kroil.

[smylee grouch]

I might be too nervous but if I had to shoot beside someone who takes the vent out of his gun every time he cleans it, I dont think I would be able to concentrate on my own shooting. To be able to remove your liner with little more than finger pressure sound like a too lose a fit to me. In these times of anti-gun hate, I'd shure hate to hear of someone hurt by a vent projectile thus giving the anti bunch some more ammo to try and ban an otherwise safe pastime. JMHO

[rich pierce]

There's not much evidence that the removal of a touchhole liner is a problem or dangerous.  There are probably more TCs out there than longrifles, which are the focus of this site, and I don't recall news of failures.  Many or most folks here, because of their focus on the longrifle, prefer to do things traditionally and so discussions of removable vent liners etc raise up differences between those with different approaches to the hobby, sport or craft.


Looks like Chipshot got good advice on how to fix his problem.

[roundball]

There's not much evidence that the removal of a touchhole liner is a problem or dangerous.

Thank you.
Stainless steel vent liners in a steel block are no different than stainless steel nipples in a steel block.

Have removed nipples, then vent liners for cleaning from every T/C, GM, and Rice barrel I've owned over the past 20 years.  In addition, I've removed them after every days hunt to blow out the load with an air compressor...easily scores (hundreds?) of times per vent liner...keep them clean, lubed, and just barely finger tight...still like new today, never a hint of a problem.

[hanshi]

I am convinced (just for me) that vent liners do not need to be removed for cleaning on a regular basis.  Nevertheless, I do remove them the majority of the time when I clean.  If the liner is stubborn and resists my efforts I stop trying to remove it and let it go.  It is so easy to burr the screw driver slot and I've done my share of that.

[JB2]

To the OP, does the TC breech have a small powder chamber leading to the liner?  Just wondering if a smaller-than-bore cleaning brush might get into this powder chamber to help loosen up any fowling that may be making that liner stubborn, and give penetrating oil a better chance to do its work.  I think I remember using .22 or .30 cal brushes to clean the powder chambers on some TCs.  Just a thought

[chipshot]

Just a quick update,
I soaked the barrel w/PB-Blaster for a few days and was able to unscrew the vent liner w/ no problem. I wanted to remove it and inspect everything as well as I could because:
1) this is my flintlock and I just recently picked it up.
2) It is a used TC annd even thought they have a good reputation I still like to feel comfortable about what I fill with black powder and put my face next to.
I greatlty appreciate all the comments and advice as to what to do.
The gun checks out and I am excited to get out and try it out. I will post some results in the next few weeks and again Thanks to all.
Jim

[stude283]

If you have the older(screw slot) TC liner an upgrade to the newer (allen head) type would be quite an improvement.They are much faster,more positive removal,and cheap(2 to a pack for about $8).One of the best upgrades you can do to an older TC flintlock.

[chipshot]

Thanks Stude for the info. After reading several posts here I am going to order the RMC vent liner and replace the old one w/ that. I bought this gun from an estate sale and was told it was only fired once but I think it must have sat for a while because it has some minor pitting in the bore which can be polished out OK to shoot. Other than also replacing the flint I think I will be good to go with it.

Also I wish to apoligize to everyone for my ranting/venting the other night.
I come here to learn and know most are only trying to help. I have already gained a lot of valuable info and greatly appreciate it.
Thanks much
Jim

[stude283]

You can't do any better than the newer TC liner  in my opinion.I have the old style lock with the better frizzen.After changing the vent to the allen style vent  ignition is super fast and no misfires or hangfires.I have a custom flintlock with a white lightning liner and another with the rmc and I think the TC is at least as fast as the white lightning .