Author Topic: Please Help Identify My Rifle (Read 18230 times)

vtbuck223 · « **on:** May 08, 2013, 01:18:34 AM »

I would appreciate any thoughts you would share with me concerning my rifle. I would really like to know....who, when, where? Length of barrel is 41 5/8, appears to be smooth, caliber somewhere between .46-.50. Thanks for your help.

http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee385/vtbuck223/908d34cd-285a-4807-8f38-085682071af3_zps1fb853ee.jpg
http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee385/vtbuck223/8b234940-9823-48f2-9e56-1d821f958571_zps3cf12d59.jpg
http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee385/vtbuck223/krifle2020_zps1dd48e78.jpg
http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee385/vtbuck223/krifle2044_zps1221dd71.jpg
http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee385/vtbuck223/krifle2015_zps168897b1.jpg
http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee385/vtbuck223/krifle2014_zps437718a1.jpg

mr. no gold · « **Reply #1 on:** May 08, 2013, 01:34:34 AM »

Very nice attic find; thank you for bringing it in. Some additional photos of the patchbox finial, The box with lid closed, lock, and close ups of the side plate would help out. The gun has traits of Allentown about it, perhaps, Northampton, but that is by no means a sure thing. The way that the buttplate finial wraps into the comb usually is a trait that is found up in that area. Again, thank you!
Dick

Buck · « **Reply #2 on:** May 08, 2013, 02:05:50 AM »

Agreed nice find.
Buck

vtbuck223 · « **Reply #3 on:** May 09, 2013, 12:12:56 AM »

I appreciate any help you can give me...here are some more pics.

Robert Wolfe · « **Reply #4 on:** May 09, 2013, 12:35:34 AM »

Can't help with any information but I love it. Thanks for posting.

Ken G · « **Reply #5 on:** May 09, 2013, 01:40:31 AM »

Thanks for sharing the pics. Wish I could help with the identification or at least a geographic area it might be from.
Ken

eddillon · « **Reply #6 on:** May 09, 2013, 02:08:05 AM »

So much says Northampton, Easton, Lehigh but that side plate is a mystery. Sure looks like the upper part of the buttplate is inletted into the comb and not a wrapped over type of inlet.

Tanselman · « **Reply #7 on:** May 09, 2013, 03:49:44 AM »

Early Kuntz??? Shelby Gallien

Majorjoel · « **Reply #8 on:** May 09, 2013, 04:40:43 AM »

Wasn't there an Albright rifle with this same side plate?

Buck · « **Reply #9 on:** May 09, 2013, 05:29:08 AM »

My guess would be Jacob Kuntz. I have seen a Kuntz rifle pictured with the same side plate, can't remember where. Kind of curious to know what JDM's opinion will be.
Buck

eddillon · « **Reply #10 on:** May 09, 2013, 07:33:05 PM »

The stock bottom line to wrist transition certainly looks Northampton IMHO.

mr. no gold · « **Reply #11 on:** May 09, 2013, 09:49:01 PM »

Side plate outline appears to have been inspired by the dragon side plate on trade guns, or a variation of some earlier English plates. Wonder if it might be a replacement since the engraving is a simple punctated dot border? The only other place that motif shows up is in the cheekrest inlay as part of the whole engraved ornamentation.
After further consideration of the photos, the patch box finials point toward Easton, in my opinion. Many Allentown guns, (used generically here for that region) do not have side plates while most of the guns produced up in Easton did. The engraving on the gun, while not profuse, shows talent and is very pleasing.
The use of silver inlays along the forearm further suggest Easton to my mind. I can't think of many guns made up there
in that region that have inlays, excepting for that school.
Then too, the architecture does not fully reflect the style preferred in the Allentown region. So, guess that to my eye, Easton is a reasonable guess as to its place of origin.
Thank you for posting the additional photos, They helped a lot.
Dick

vtbuck223 · « **Reply #12 on:** May 10, 2013, 02:21:32 AM »

All of your thoughts and opinions are much appreciated. Until Kuntz was mentioned...I never would have seen the possibility...now I do. I have a few further thoughts and questions. The sideplate was mentioned as similar to an Albright...which I am guessing is No. 24 listed in Kindigs book....one of my few resources on the subject as it just arrived in the mail. In my brief searches on the internet I have only seen one other similar.... on a Lechler rifle to which I will try to add a link here: http://www.aaawt.com/html/firearms_gallery1.html

As far as the dot border on the sideplate...it does appears somewhere else on the rifle....however small and brief....the front sight...I have added photos of both here.

The rear sight also has an interesting "snowflake" type decoration....does this appear on other rifles in particular?

I have heard from a reliable source from this site that open ended nose caps are almost always associated with Lehigh and Bucks County rifles....very interesting.

The toeplate...while largely missing...appears to have been somewhat of an interesting design...any similarities to Kuntz?

And lastly....the patchbox is completely pinned on...no screws....has anyone seen this before? I haven't seen it in my limited searching.

I also included a closeup photo of one of the silver inlays along the forearm so that you can see the engraving.

Thanks again....I really appreciate your help.

jdm · « **Reply #13 on:** May 10, 2013, 02:48:41 AM »

Ok, I'll give it a try. This rifle does have some Lehigh County characteristics . The open ended nose cap, stud on the front of the trigger guard,( although small). The butt plate as mentioned before , how ever not as prominent as on some rifles. The fore stock appears to be a V shape as on Lehigh guns. The bottom of the nose cap is shape to comply with the ramrod. A variation of a fleur-de-lis on the patch box. Does the tang end in a point? The side plate looks as though it 's been on the rifle for a long,long time. The fit at the bottom by the trigger guard seems to hang over a bit. It is not typical of the area. Not all makers were topical though. I am not in the Kuntz camp. In my opinion the engraving is not his quality. After all this I still have no idea who made it . Sometimes that doesn't matter. This rifle is nice. Any one would be proud to have it in there collection. Thank you for sharing it with us.

vtbuck223 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 10, 2013, 04:30:54 AM »

jdm thanks....here are a couple shots of the tang.

eddillon · « **Reply #15 on:** May 10, 2013, 04:47:50 AM »

Patchbox, toeplate and sideplate all pinned and not screwd on. Does that fact point to a particular maker?

jdm · « **Reply #16 on:** May 10, 2013, 05:06:12 AM »

Tang is the type seen on Lehigh rifles also. Mr.no gold I agree the barrel key en lays are more an Easton feature. Perhaps someone in the Eastern part of Northampton county?

eddillon Good question. one maker or a school?

Buck · « **Reply #17 on:** May 10, 2013, 05:57:29 AM »

Jim,
This rifle and the Easton rig I sent you pictures of have a somewhat similar stock architecture, along with the engraving on the barrel key escutcheons. Ed Dillon has a half stock that we believe is from the same hand. The nub on the rear entry pipe, short wrist, and cheek piece are similar. Maybe one of the Young's ?
Buck

eddillon · « **Reply #18 on:** May 10, 2013, 10:07:08 PM »

Quote from: Buck on May 10, 2013, 05:57:29 AM

Jim,
This rifle and the Easton rig I sent you pictures of have a somewhat similar stock architecture, along with the engraving on the barrel key escutcheons. Ed Dillon has a half stock that we believe is from the same hand. The nub on the rear entry pipe, short wrist, and cheek piece are similar. Maybe one of the Young's ?
Buck

Buck, here is a correction to this post. My rifle is a full stock not a half. I have added photos of the engraving. I have pictures of the engraving on your rifle but would prefer that you post a couple of yours here so that others can see that they are definitely engraved by the same person. Would love to see if mine, yours and vtbuck223's are made by the same individual. Mine is converted to percussion.

Buck · « **Reply #19 on:** May 11, 2013, 12:34:49 AM »

Ed,
Apologies for the error, it was a bit late in the evening for me.
Buck

eddillon · « **Reply #20 on:** May 11, 2013, 12:56:28 AM »

No problem, Buck. Hoping that if you post a couple of pix, it may stir the memory banks of somebody else on the forum.

Buck · « **Reply #21 on:** May 11, 2013, 05:35:31 AM »

Ed,
Excuse the photos, I am not a pro. This is a rifle thought to have been made in Easton, Kuntz or Young possibly. Anyway the individual was a masterful engraver and it appears to be the same hand as the rifle Ed has pictured above. I thought of this rifle right away when the "thread rifle" was posted, the nub on the rear ramrod pipe, the very short wrist and the general form of the stock minus the straight comb.
Buck

Buck · « **Reply #22 on:** May 11, 2013, 05:59:57 AM »

I am posting these for Jim,
The patch box with the hunting dog is a Young rifle, the other is a rifle by Derringer. Jim will comment in detail.

jdm · « **Reply #23 on:** May 11, 2013, 07:25:22 AM »

vtbuck223, Sorry , I hope you don't think we are trying to high jack your thread. These are rifles made in Easton or the Easton style.Derringer learned in the gun shop of the Young's of Easton. Some of his early rifles show a lot of influence from them. I was hoping we might see some similetries with your fine rifle.
I think the fact that the maker of your gun used pins instead of screws may be one of the key indentifiing features .

Buck · « **Reply #24 on:** May 11, 2013, 01:13:50 PM »

vtbuck223,
I would also like to reiterate what Jim said, it was not our intent to take the focus from your rifle. As Jim said in regards to the pins, that might be an identifying feature at least to narrow it down to a certain geographical area. Easton / Northampton appears to be the place. All of the embellishments on 2nd rifle are pinned, with the exception of the PB finial and the elongated toe plate. Hope this helps.
Buck

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Author Topic: Please Help Identify My Rifle (Read 18230 times)

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